Whip Question

[Samigator]

Probably a silly question, but I'm not sure how to access the rulebook, or if this is even in it. . .

Can a whip be used in front of the girth (ie. on the shoulder) on a hunt seat horse in the show ring? I'm talking a tap on the shoulder, not a beating in the head here. . .

Obviously in saddle seat, this is most commonly where a whip is used, but in my open show circuit, using the whip in front of the girth is penalized/ie potentially disqualifying. Just wondering what the rules are in the ASB ring.

Thanks!

[D_BaldStockings]

INDEX FOR THE ENTIRE USEF RULEBOOK
https://www.usef.org/_IFrames/RuleBook/2010.aspx

THE SADDLEBRED DIVISION
https://www.usef.org/documents/ruleBook/2010/24-SB.pdf

“SB104 APPOINTMENTS
3. A competitor may carry or use a whip not exceeding 6’ including lash; the lash shall not
have been altered in any way. It must be a standard whip of suitable style. Failure to comply will result in disqualification from further competition. (Exception: In-Hand. Refer to SB176.)
4. Whips longer than 6’, including snapper or lash, are not allowed in the warm-up area.”

I checked out the General, Hunter and Jumper rules by searching for whip and crop;
There is no mention of use in front of the girth being abusive (or mention of use on the shoulder at all.), only on the head and lower legs and the length.
Weighted whips are illegal.
More than 30” in the above hunter and jumper are illegal while mounted.
More than 45” in warmup is illegal.

"2.2.1 Excessive use of the whip
• The whip cannot be used to vent a rider’s temper. Such use is always excessive;
• The whip is not to be used after elimination or after a horse has jumped the last fence on a course;
• The whip is never to be used overhand, (for example a whip in the right hand being used on the left flank. The use of a whip on a horse’s head is always excessive use;
• A horse should never be hit more than three times for any one incident. If a horse’s skin is broken, it is considered excessive use of the whip.
• An Athlete identified as misusing or excessively using the whip will be disqualified and may be fined at the discretion of the Ground Jury (see Art. 241.2.9 and 242.1.14)."

**
Most ‘information type’ sites describe using the whip to tap or touch on both flank and shoulder as needed.

So not sure where the ‘No whip in front of the girth in H/J’ according to their interpretation came from.


I don’t find it listed in any of the above disciplines including at FEI level.
-Didn’t check the QH rules, though…perhaps?

[Samigator]

Thanks Dbald. I didn't think ASB folk would probably have a problem using a whip on the shoulder, but I'm fairly certain it is illegal to use a whip in front of the girth in my open, all-breed WSCA circuit- I would imagine their rules are based off of many of the stock breeds' rules.

[Renae]

Originally Posted by Samigator

Thanks Dbald. I didn't think ASB folk would probably have a problem using a whip on the shoulder, but I'm fairly certain it is illegal to use a whip in front of the girth in my open, all-breed WSCA circuit- I would imagine their rules are based off of many of the stock breeds' rules.

Although I don't have a WSCA rulebook in front of me (they refuse to put it online because they rely on selling the rulebook as a fund raiser), I do not believe that using a whip/crop forward of the girth on an English horse, hunt seat or saddle seat, is illegal in WSCA. In WSCA hunt and saddle seat often both show together in generic "English Pleasure", and the same procedure rules apply to both seats of English riding. Also, the AQHA rulebook makes no mention of using a crop forward of the girth in Hunter Under Saddle rules. No cueing forward of the cinch is basically a western classes rule.

It is, however, more accepted when showing hunt seat WSCA to carry your crop in your outside hand so it is not as obvious to the judge.

Your best bet, of course, in regards to WSCA rules, is to find a WSCA rulebook to reference.

[vicuna]

I think USEF has changed to rule in teh Wester division to where you can not touch the horse infront of the girth. From my understanding, you can not touch with your hand or foot, to praise the horse or correct.

[wstrngrl]

Originally Posted by vicuna

I think USEF has changed to rule in teh Wester division to where you can not touch the horse infront of the girth. From my understanding, you can not touch with your hand or foot, to praise the horse or correct.

Actually the rule (in both ASB western division and the general USEF Western division) only says "cueing in front of cinch"...

So while using a foot in front of the cinch should be considered cueing; I don't know why praising by patting a horse on the neck would be against the rules ; Maybe if you smacked them on the neck in a disciplinary manner; but that's still not really a cue, that's a disciplinary action

Or someone with an incredibly loose definition of "cueing" decided to interpret the rule that way; but that's not what the rule actually says.

[Samigator]

hmm. . . then what do they call neck reining? Not a cue? And for that matter any bit cues? Those all take place in front of the cinch. . .

I am thinking it must be okay to use a hunt whip on the shoulder, but I'll try not to make it too noticeable if I need to use it!