Please help me with my horse

[arduke]

I have owned my horse for 3 years and when i got her she was a very consistent horse that could trot far above level without any action devices ever being used on her. Then i moved her and she went into part training with another trainer then that trainer didn't have time to train my horse so i had to do the training on her but had no say in her shoeing and the trainer stopped having the chiropractor see her regularly which she needs because she is very roach backed. i moved her again and now she is a walk-trot lesson horse and she is starting to get back to where she was before and is seeing a chiropractor regularly again. How does that make any sense at all? So tell me the big differences you notice between the years.
So i'll start with the pictures from when my horse was in full training with a well known trainer who had trained since she was 3 with the help of the trainer that i moved her to second.

2008 Jingle bells horse show five gaited junior exhibitor
the last show before i moved her.
http://s393.photobucket.com/albums/p...l%20horseshow/
she is the bay mare
2009 Del mar charity fair horse show five gaited show pleasure
the second show with the new trainer and the last time we showed five-gaited until last weekend.
http://www.rickosteen.com/photocart/...ewImage=330766
http://www.rickosteen.com/photocart/...ewImage=330772
http://www.rickosteen.com/photocart/...ewImage=330783
http://www.rickosteen.com/photocart/...ewImage=330784
http://www.rickosteen.com/photocart/...ewImage=330796
http://www.rickosteen.com/photocart/...ewImage=330832
http://www.rickosteen.com/photocart/...ewImage=330833
http://www.rickosteen.com/photocart/...ewImage=330855
http://s393.photobucket.com/albums/p...0horse%20show/
2009 Jingle bell horse show three gaited show pleasure junior exhibitor
we look awful
http://www.rickosteen.com/photocart/...ewImage=236699
http://www.rickosteen.com/photocart/...ewImage=236700
http://www.rickosteen.com/photocart/...ewImage=236712
http://www.rickosteen.com/photocart/...ewImage=236713
http://www.rickosteen.com/photocart/...ewImage=236722
2010 jingle bell horse show red ribbon class
even worse!!!
http://www.rickosteen.com/photocart/...ewImage=491643
http://www.rickosteen.com/photocart/...91644&zoom=yes
2011 spotlight horse show 5-gaited pleasure
we were the only people in the class
http://leelocke.exposuremanager.com/g/27_callaway_s_spring_blossom
So if you were able to survive through that will you tell me the differences you see and critique me and my horse(i know i look down all the time). What do you think i can do to make her better? i do have a video from today but i am waiting for it to load.

[asbridertb]

None of your links work.

[arduke]

thats weird ill try fixing them i think at least the last link should work

[cparker912]

Why dont you move her back to the first trainer..who had her how you liked her??

[arduke]

the original owner is much farther away so i can only ride once a week and currently i have a good deal with the newest trainer for when i leave to go to college but i would like to everything i can to improve her for the kids that will be showing her. oh and her first trainer was anne speck

[ldenenholz11]

Ashley, I know you and your horse from seeing you at shows around CA. I don't know if we've really ever talked though but I was in a similar "my horse isn't all that they can be and the training situation is not working for him" last year and after a LOT of consideration, we moved him down to Jim Cherry's, which is a minimum 2 hour drive each way from my house in Pasadena and college in Claremont. I drive down to ride him once a week and although I can't ride as much as I used to, I chose to put his training needs before my convenience and I am SO glad I did! He's super happy, is moving square again, and is in better shape than ever. For me, it's always been about what I can do that's best for him, he even spent a year in Kentucky to grow up with the big name trainer I bought him from, even though I only was only able to visit him three times that year.
You say that you're getting a good deal, but is it really a good deal if your horse is becoming a horse that is a) less attractive to watch than the horse you bought and b) a horse you don't want to ride? If it would me, I would not worry about her being a lesson horse right now, as you don't have much time at a junior exhibitor left. Plus it's where she'll pick up bad habits and being ridden more will mostly likely make her worse. There's a reason why show horses aren't ridden by academy riders and then expected to be as nice when their performance rider shows them at the same time. I really do respect what you're trying to do by letting academy riders show her though and that's great for them probably, but not so great for you.
From the pictures two weeks ago, it seems like she's become way more strung out and heavy in the bridle than the last time I saw her show with Cheyenne in 5G CP. Also, what's really interesting to me is that her ears are back in all your pictures but forward with the academy kids. Do you talk to her a lot or do you think because you're a more experienced rider and ask more from her, she might be uncomfortable, particularly at the slow gait and rack? Those gaits are very demanding for a horse and it would not surprise me if she's uncomfortable, particularly since you mentioned she's roach-backed and perhaps from general wear&tear over the years.

I'm by no means an expert but I have see you show her (and have shown against her) some and have seen a noticeable decline over the years.

[wilkinak]

the original owner is much farther away so i can only ride once a week and currently i have a good deal with the newest trainer for when i leave to go to college but i would like to everything i can to improve her for the kids that will be showing her. oh and her first trainer was anne speck

I realize you said it's a new trainer, but if the horse isn't working how you want it, it's not a good deal. I had a "good deal" trainer, and it was great except that the horse ended up so sour she was useless. I have some friends who "made a deal" with trainers for a reduced rate compared to other trainers, except that they got reduced talent/knowledge as well and the horses didn't turn out so hot.

I have a 2-3 hour drive to a trainer, so I'm familiar with inconvience. I could have the horse local and look like crap or drive to have her look good. I chose the drive, but go with whatever floats your boat.

[Peris Mom]

Ashley, I've also seen your horse show over the past several years. I agree with what Laura said, but have a few more thoughts.

In looking at the threads you've started, you seem to have been frustrated for some time. To recap, you got her in the fall of 2007. You showed her at three shows, between April & December of 2008, three times again in 2009 and at two shows last year. However, in June, 2009, you were already wanting to breed her, apparently to get a better horse. Also, in June, 2009, you started showing her in 3 gaited pleasure & had shown her only in that division and equitation until you showed her 5 gaited again last month. In the fall of 2009, you started a thread about the various difficulties you were having with her (cantering, difficulties with her rack, etc.) Early last year, you started a thread about changing her to the hunter division. To me, all of this says that you and this horse just aren't on the same playing field. That is not meant to say anything against either you or your horse, but it just doesn't seem to be the right fit. Frankly, I think you need a different horse -- she's eleven years old and is what she is. This is a bad time to try to sell a horse, particularly if you're trying to get enough money to buy a better one. Perhaps you could work out a deal with your present trainer to use her as a lesson horse at no expense to you as it seems that this trainer (I don't know who you are with currently) does care for your horse. Then you could save the money you would be spending on training, etc., toward getting a horse more suited to your needs. Another thought: There are a lot of people out there who have very nice horses that they can't afford to keep in training and/or show right now. If you really want to stay in the show world, perhaps you could find a horse to lease.

At any rate, good luck in your endeavors. :)

Edited to say: You said you wanted to make her the best you could for the kids who will show her when you're in college. Honestly, don't worry about them. Once she becomes a lesson horse, she will NEVER be what she was with only one exhibitor. It's tough enough to have a horse that two competent riders can show, let alone multiple riders of varying abilities. If she packs them around and allows them to get good experiences, she is doing her job.

[asbridertb]

Ashley, I've also seen your horse show over the past several years. I agree with what Laura said, but have a few more thoughts.

In looking at the threads you've started, you seem to have been frustrated for some time. To recap, you got her in the fall of 2007. You showed her at three shows, between April & December of 2008, three times again in 2009 and at two shows last year. However, in June, 2009, you were already wanting to breed her, apparently to get a better horse. Also, in June, 2009, you started showing her in 3 gaited pleasure & had shown her only in that division and equitation until you showed her 5 gaited again last month. In the fall of 2009, you started a thread about the various difficulties you were having with her (cantering, difficulties with her rack, etc.) Early last year, you started a thread about changing her to the hunter division. To me, all of this says that you and this horse just aren't on the same playing field. That is not meant to say anything against either you or your horse, but it just doesn't seem to be the right fit. Frankly, I think you need a different horse -- she's eleven years old and is what she is. This is a bad time to try to sell a horse, particularly if you're trying to get enough money to buy a better one. Perhaps you could work out a deal with your present trainer to use her as a lesson horse at no expense to you as it seems that this trainer (I don't know who you are with currently) does care for your horse. Then you could save the money you would be spending on training, etc., toward getting a horse more suited to your needs. Another thought: There are a lot of people out there who have very nice horses that they can't afford to keep in training and/or show right now. If you really want to stay in the show world, perhaps you could find a horse to lease.

At any rate, good luck in your endeavors. :)

Edited to say: You said you wanted to make her the best you could for the kids who will show her when you're in college. Honestly, don't worry about them. Once she becomes a lesson horse, she will NEVER be what she was with only one exhibitor. It's tough enough to have a horse that two competent riders can show, let alone multiple riders of varying abilities. If she packs them around and allows them to get good experiences, she is doing her job.

Trot needs a "like" button!

[arduke]

well i knew what she was when i bought her and well honestly shes the type of horse that does better when you change things up a lot. I get frustrated by her lack of over all want to do anything. The video from 2008 jingle bells was her best show in a long time for once anne didnt really have something to yell at me about. The funny thing is that she had just come off an injury there and we had really not been planning to go to the show. I will not be taking her with me to college until maybe the fourth year of college as i will not have any time between softball and riding for my classes at stephens college. For those of you that have seen me show you may have noticed the people from my old barn trying to get her to perk up by all but throwing themselves in the arena which about the same reaction to every thing else. Cheyenne and blossom does seem to get along a lot better than her and i do. Anne was right in the beginning before i even started riding her that she is not enough horse for me.

[arduke]

http://s393.photobucket.com/albums/pp18/horsymorsy/Blossom/?action=view&current=FILE0017.mp4
http://s393.photobucket.com/albums/pp18/horsymorsy/Blossom/?action=view&current=FILE0016.mp4
http://s393.photobucket.com/albums/pp18/horsymorsy/Blossom/?action=view&current=FILE0015.mp4
unfortunately my camera died before i had really gotten her warmed up and while i was trying to find a place to set the camera she took it upon her self to take the largest bite of grass she could fit in mouth and was not ready to let me pull it out of her mouth so it was hard to move the bit at all. you can see me lean forward and pull the grass out of her mouth

[sdlbredfan]

Arduke, am not sure if you realize it but you said something that is an important clue: 'I get frustrated by her lack of over all want to do anything'. That plus watching some of the video clips above + what you said about her benefiting from chiropractic = ouchy horse. She has been trying to tell you for a long time that she hurts. A horse cannot be bright and cheerful in the show ring while in constant discomfort or pain.

Racking is very, very hard on the horse's hind legs more so than the front. Being 11 years old is another indication that perhaps she should not be asked to rack anymore. When a horse is that age, unless the horse has been blessed by being in training and under the care of someone really knowledgeable in keeping a horse sound despite increasing age, it is not uncommon for a horse to have more difficulty with that gait,

I only looked at a few of the videos but in a couple of them I could see that there is some hind end discomfort. One of the first ones showing her racking shows the stride is not even in back, is kind of intermittently 'hitchy'. That is an indication you have a soundness problem and that should have been your clue to stop racking her until that was diagnosed and appropriately treated.

The trotting pictures of you on her do not show you helping her any. She is merely being pushed along fast, all strung out.

I agree with the folks who are saying, you need to decide if you want her to return to the show ring, in some division other than academy, or not. If you do that means she needs to be in training, probably with trainer 1 due to the track record of horsey doing well in that one's care. If you are fine with her being a lesson horse, that actually seems more in line with what the horse is currently capable of, at her current level of soundness.

Jeanie

[arduke]

ok thank you i will probably be showing her one more time before i leave for college

[Peris Mom]

...Anne was right in the beginning before i even started riding her that she is not enough horse for me.

Several knowledgable people have given a lot of thought to your situation & spent their valuable time giving you good advice, starting with the very wise trainer you had originally. I think you pretty much had in mind what you were going to do anyway. Again, good luck.

[arduke]

starting with the trainer i had originally is not financially suitable and currently i am only paying for shoes and chiropractor so cost have been cut down significantly i was just wondering if there was anything i could do to help her in the boarding situation i currently have.

[walkinghorseowner]

To be honest, I would turn the horse out for 6 months to a year, if I ever wanted to show her again before I would use one for lessons. JMHO, but a lesson horse has a career that is very different from a show horse. She might freshen up on a prolonged vacation.

[asbridertb]

So you don't have the money for training and are letting her be used for lessons, yet you expect the same performance out of her?

That is seriously not fair to the mare in any way, shape or form. If you can't put her in a situation where she can succeed, you are setting her up to FAIL. And blaming the horse and not yourself is not fair to her in the least. She may not have the most talent as another horse in the ring, but you do not have her in a situation where what talent she DOES have, can come out.

Obviously you don't think very highly of this horse, given your comments on this and other threads. I would sell her and find a different hobby, at least until you have the financial ability to maintain a show horse at the level you demand.

[Summer Skye]

Please, please, please, don't make your horse rack. You have a lovely horse and it looks like she is working her butt off for you. You can tell it's an effort for her and i agree that her rear looks hitchy. She is doing the very best that she can for you. (I'm afraid I would not be so kind to you and would probably just stop-- good think I'm not a saddlebred.) If your really watch the videos you can tell she is putting her feet in the right places but she has to focus-- and cannot, therefore, speed up and get in a rythum (sp) She is going as fast as she can. 11years old? Ykes -- Not that that's old but it is to be asked to step up.

Please be kind to her. I wouldn't let the lesson folks use her at the rack either.

I have a 4 year old that loves to rack naturally. I won't let him because he does not a) have the bone for it (b) he is too straight in the rear for it. Can he do it? Yes, Does he love it? Yes. Could he keep it up for years? No Would it be good for him? No.

Please be happy with what you've got-- a horse that will keep trying. You have many years to get your performance horse -- And yes, you can't be a passenger. You have to be a rider. There is a difference.

[ldenenholz11]

After seeing more recent videos of Blossom, she MUST stop racking unless you want to have a horse that no one can ride. I know you are probably attached to her but it looks like it's time for her to teach little ones to ride. Most riders outgrow their horse; I've outgrown 3 myself in the last 7 years but that doesn't mean that it's easy to accept because you do become attached.
The most important thing is that she is appreciated for who she is and if your skills have exceeded her abilities, it's time to move on. Frankly, you got lucky with almost perfect timing; you're off to school very soon where you'll have dozens of new horses to ride and it sounds like the program she's in would like to have her permanently. If they do want her, by all means let them have her and save your money for shows at Stephens on new horses who want to trot bigger and faster and actually enjoy racking!

[kross]

arduke...I agree w/the need for a good soundness vet to go over this mare. What you are saying about this mare (not wanting to be square) & what your videos show are both (I hate internet videos, as I think they make everything look off even if 100% sound, but I think I see her trying to twist herself at the rack & head bobbing @ the trot) good indicators that she needs something more than the chiro.

Also reading through both your posts & those that are familiar w/this combo, it is sounding like this mare has done her job well for you and brought you along as a rider so maybe it is time to to let her help develop her next rider while you move onto your next challenge that will further develop you.

[nicole3566]

I wasn't able to watch the videos of your horse, but from the pictures I saw in which she was out of the bridle, ears back, and seemed strung out.. she definitely seems uncomfortable. So at this point I think you need to decide what is more important to you.. the health of your horse or a cheap ribbon. I know how you feel to be frustrated because I am in the same position. Although I've already graduated from college, I know the financial frustrations of not being able to afford a top name trainer, so I have been working my horse on my own. I'd love to be able to show this year, but I already know that it's not going to happen, and I'm fine with that. I would rather wait until I know that she's ready. My horse gets very sore in her hind end, so I've been having the chiropractor out to work on her a few times, and it's helped, but hasnt solved the problem 100% yet. So i'm taking my time to do it right and build her muscles up. As for your horse, I definitely think you should reconsider showing her 5gaited. As you've already read from other people, it puts a lot of stress on horses, and you already know that your horse has issues with her back. So if its not comfortable for her and its just going to hurt her, then why do it? Is it really worth it? I know a lot of people who will do whatever it takes just to win, and i personally am not one of those people. I dont want to sacrifice the heatlh and well being of my horse just for a ribbon. But you have to decide what you want. I wouldnt sell her just because she has some issues, but you should decide if you're willing to put in the time and effort that it's going to take to bring out her full potential.