View Full Version : Reg. Papers Question
02-03-2008, 10:33 PM
I wondered this seeing a certain fee on the ASHA website.
Let's say Bill has a horse in his name. Bill sells the horse to Ted. Ted never transfers the horse to his own name; ASHA still says Bill owns him. Ted then sells to Harry. Can Harry have the papers directly put in his name? Or does Ted have to be indicated as an owner before Harry can be put on?
02-04-2008, 07:27 AM
You can skip Ted if he's never signed the papers as the new owner(ie if he signed the papers but never sent them in). Theoretically, for record keeping purposes, Ted should send them as he being the owner but he doesn't have to and Harry can just send them in.
02-04-2008, 09:19 AM
What is a back transfer on the transfer of registration papers?
02-04-2008, 04:26 PM
What this discribes is a horse with a broken chain of ownership. If Ted has a transfer from Bill-then Ted is going to have to transfer the horse into his name and then execute a transfer to the new owner. If Ted doesn't have a transfer from Bill-that can prove to be a bit of a problem. If I were buying the horse-I would want to know the transfer status. If the horse is still in Bill's name per ASHA records-then Bill is going to have to be the one that triggers the transfer of the horse out of his name.
02-04-2008, 10:02 PM
So what you are saying Judy is that Ted HAS to register the horse and pay ASHA before Harry can buy the horse from him. So Harry has to pester Ted to register the horse in Ted's name before $$$ change hands?
Is what Smorrow said available in any circumstances?
02-04-2008, 11:09 PM
Bill is "supposed" to transfer to Ted, then Ted to Harry. I wish the ASHA would offer a discounted transfer fee if there are multiple transfers sent in on the same horse at the same time. That way, maybe people like Harry wouldn't be tempted to cheat! I'm getting ready to send in 2 transfers on 1 horse. It's very tempting to skip the middle owner and save $50.00. It's not like the ASHA has to send the papers to Ted, then have Ted send them back with another transfer. It's all done in one mailing when the 2 transfers are sent in together.
02-04-2008, 11:51 PM
well, not really. for example.. do you remember that Bob horse i had? brian- the guy who found him bought him for a few hundred from 'joe' lets say- had recieved a signed transfer slip with the papers- but it was blank on the dates of sale and who he was sold to. basically, 'joe' just sent it along with the papers, acknoledging he didnt have the horse anymore. brian never transfered registeration of the horse, as he'd have to join the association and pay more fees- and honestly, he didnt care that much. so, laura bought bob from them- again didnt sign the transfer- and when we bought him a month or so later, we had the transfer slip 'joe' had signed almost a year ago- brian and laura were never recorded as owners on bob. so, bob's chain of ownership goes straight from 'joe' to me, and then the kid who bought him from me.
the association frowns upon this i am sure, as its a great way to loose track of a horse. if it didnt happen so often, i bet SBR would have a much easier time of tracking down horses. but they cant do much about it.
i do believe you can pay for 'back transfers' which mean you include the person who had the horse between the other two owners- however i never really got that, as that person was rather irrelevant at that point and it would just mean paying extra money...
basically, if you are considering buying a horse that is not in the current owners name.... just make sure they have a signed transfer from the prior owner.
02-05-2008, 07:17 AM
I bought a horse from a woman that after many months ignored requests to send the transfer. Even the registry contacted the woman and she still didn't act. Fortunately, I had a bill of sale but I still had to send in pictures and pay all the late fees to get the papers on the horse. I really thought that the registry should do something so that the buyer doesn't get hit with all the fees because of a bad seller.
02-05-2008, 09:20 AM
So did Jenny just explain what smorrow said? That if there's just a siggy (no dates/price) then Harry can transfer the horse without going through the motions of transferring it to Ted first?
Wanna be clear on this...
02-05-2008, 11:23 AM
Okay, I had a horse that let's say went from "Laura" to "Juan" to "Mike's Auction House" to "Killer Buyer/Feedlot Guy" to me ... and the papers didn't go with. Last known registered owner was "Laura."
Short story was that "Laura" signed a transfer agreement to me and the horse was re-registered in my name. We DID pay the back fees as we wanted the horse to be registered to us as of the day we got him, not the day we were finally approved for the transfer fee (there was the matter of the owner's "agent" deciding we shouldn't have the horse and blocking the transfer for 6 years). FYI, thank you to AB for getting it all straightened out. I ended up with a full brother to the dam of Manilla Thrilla ...
02-05-2008, 12:35 PM
Well, WWW, what you are describing is hopping over all of those other owners, which is what Judy is advocating against. However, in many cases, it is a whole lot easier to go from point A-E, without using B,C,or D.;)
I have a horses papers sitting on my dining room table that I have not transferred into my name. The transfer had been lost, and, when I contacted the owner, we agreed that, at this point, there is no hurry. I plan to sell him, so he will probably just go into the new owners name. However, if I had not contacted the horses owner of record, and didn't have a transfer, I'd be alot more concerned than I am with this situation.
02-05-2008, 01:23 PM
The point I was trying to make is that per ASHA rules-the horse has to be transferred out of the recorded owner's name. If the buyer of the horse can get the recorded owner to transfer the horse directly to the him or her-that solves the problem. However, if the transfer the middle man has is made out to the middle man and signed by the recorded owner-and the recorder owner says I'm not giving you a transfer-I sold that horse to the middle man and gave him a transfer-then that transfer is going to have to be executed and the middle man would make one out to the new owner.
Not knowing the circumstances-what I was trying to avoid was someone buying a horse with the promise that they can get the papers-only to find out that it is going to take a lot of work to fulfill that promise. If I were buying the horse I would want to see the transfer that the middle man has in his possession-and ask if he has the registration certificate. If having a horse recorded in one's name is an important part of this purchase-there needs to be some due diligence on the part of the buyer. A call to the ASHA explaining the situation would provide the correct answers to the problem.
02-05-2008, 02:18 PM
These things like this could be avoided if ALL sellers complete the transfer and mail it to ASHA themselves. I've even insisted on this when I've given horses away. Sorry not much help here but I would contact the signer of the transfer if all is well, fill in your name and go. I believe in KISS.
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