what could they do different?????

[july]

how sad to see some of the horses bringing only $100 !!!! wonder of any of these ideas would work? who picks what day your horse sells on? seems like thursdays are cheaper selling prices ? wonder why? what could get more buyers in on thursdays? charge a different price for each sale day? cheaper commission for thursday? maybe at least 1/2 price on thursday? much higher commission on sat? let the seller decide if they want the cheaper days or not ??? maybe callay needs to be on thursday am :) maybe then some of the bt names would be there ??? something should be done to get more buyers/bigger ticketed horses on thursday. this day has always been a sellers nightmare. maybe have the sale fri/sat/sun ??? after all we take off work on thursday,why not on monday ? anyone else have any ideas ??????

[horseluvr]

I don't know how they decide the order of go for the sale, but it seems that the early horses are the ones from people that are not in the "in crowd". When we were into Standardbreds, the order of go for sales was determined by the dam's name. The first year, it would be mares whose names started with A, and placed in alphabetical order The next year of the sale, it would be dams names that started with B and so on. This guaranteed that there was no preferential treatment as to when horses went through the sale.

[cparker912]

It's not the sales fault.

Selective breeding, good training and good turnout help enormously. I see several young horses with sires, dams and grandsires I've never heard of and with no show record.

Like I mention before I have a 16 yr old proven broodmare(in foal) I needed to sell but knowing the market and sale buyers I knew she wouldn't bring much at the sale (after hauling/consignment/etc expenses) so I am going to just place her in a good home.

To me the sale is a good place to move a proven show horse, prospect thats under saddle or younger broodmare...not weanlings or old broodmares.

[Highstep]

Better live vid, and on-line bidding.
More Pictures of said horses for sale before the sale.

[cblue08]

The FREE live feed was definitely hitchy, but a step in the right direction.

Plus, this sale has an online catalog, plus the FREE live feed...maybe add phone-in or online bids if possible and they potentially have a MUCH, MUCH larger bidding audience.

and finally,

I would strongly encourage advertising the sale OUTSIDE the traditional saddlebred circles. There are all kinds of beautiful, useful horses in this sale selling for DIRT cheap (AACK!) . They HAVE to advertise to a wider, more varied audeince. If I wasn't monitoring TROT.org forum, I would never know this sale existed or the websites to get more info. Get out ads notices EARLY, with references to the ONLINE catalog, free live feed website, etc. in a variety of magazines (endurance, dressage, Equus, etc.), online forums (COTH, UDBB, others..?). and other general equine media? (RFD TV?! ;)....there are people out there who don't know beans about saddlebreds but I am SURE would take a look...and LIKE what they see. We need them!

just my two cents...I just hate to see so many nice looking youngsters (some well started!)and broodies going for nothing....

[graymare]

More and more videos. It amazes me how many people I know that have gotten interested or bought based on internet videos. I know there are a lot of videos on Facebook for horses in the sale. But it would be great to have this be a coordinated effort. Can you imagine an online Tattersalls book that has videos too! Maybe even throw in some 3D glasses! :online2long: Ok, I'm getting light headed. I've looked at the prices and need a glass of wine to drown my sorrows for not being there or having a place to put one.

[july]

It's not the sales fault.

Selective breeding, good training and good turnout help enormously. I see several young horses with sires, dams and grandsires I've never heard of and with no show record.

Like I mention before I have a 16 yr old proven broodmare(in foal) I needed to sell but knowing the market and sale buyers I knew she wouldn't bring much at the sale (after hauling/consignment/etc expenses) so I am going to just place her in a good home.

To me the sale is a good place to move a proven show horse, prospect thats under saddle or younger broodmare...not weanlings or old broodmares.

i am not "blaming" the sales at all. i think it is the BEST sale for our breed. i was just wondering what they could do to attract a bigger crowd on thursday and put in higher priced horses. there was some high quality proven show horses that still brought LOW bids. i think mainly because the bidders are not there on thursdays :(

[ASB Stars]

This isn't about Tsalls. It is a commentary on the desperate need to educate the horse buying public about the diversity of our breed.

Yes, I do know I sound like a broken record....:glare:

[SmartAlex]

It would take a long time to retrain the die hard bidders to show up early and stay late. And honestly... this has been said of the western classes in horse shows... I look ahead to who/what is selling, so I know when to go to the ladies room, or get a bite to eat. And no, I don't think intermissions are the answer to that. You would have more people wander off completely.

I think the answer to getting some of these prices up is personal promotion. The sellers can't expect TSE to do all their promotion. I've seen only a couple of nice email ads circulate prior to the shows over the years. Take out a classified ad before hand to generate interest. Put together a flyer. We all know one good photo can sell a horse... find one.

[july]

I don't know how they decide the order of go for the sale, but it seems that the early horses are the ones from people that are not in the "in crowd". When we were into Standardbreds, the order of go for sales was determined by the dam's name. The first year, it would be mares whose names started with A, and placed in alphabetical order The next year of the sale, it would be dams names that started with B and so on. This guaranteed that there was no preferential treatment as to when horses went through the sale.

i really think this is a "fair" way so that "everyone" even the little guys get a chance to sell a horse on sat when the crowds are bigger. just because you aren't from a big name barn/trainer/stud/mare ect... means you don't have a nice horse :) and wh yshouldn't you be able to have the chance to sell in front of a bigger crowd too?

[asb_own_me]

Plus, this sale has an online catalog, plus the FREE live feed...maybe add phone-in or online bids if possible and they potentially have a MUCH, MUCH larger bidding audience.


You can bid by phone.

[SmartAlex]

This is sort of tongue in cheek, so buyers and sellers don't knot yer panties.....

I've often wondered... how does TSE know which horses are going to be crap horses? They unfailingly put them in the first and last slots. Sure, now and then a real gem shows up, but by and large, the Teaters seem to have an unfailing instinct as to which ones those are.

[Mona129]

Printed video links in the catalog with live linking in the pdf. Video Video Video and can I say video AGAIN??? Having seven minutes of good honest footage (and video of his dam) is what absolutely swayed me to express mail a blank check, set up shipping and buy a horse more or less sight unseen. I barely saw him go in the ring because I was so intent on the bidding with the time lapse.

I also like the idea of half priced entries on the first day or the alphabetical order. Both of those things, not good for Susie and Ed's bottom line however.

I really think sellers taking the time to market their horses is extremely important. Video and photos are immensely helpful!

[FallingWater]

This isn't about Tsalls. It is a commentary on the desperate need to educate the horse buying public about the diversity of our breed.

Yes, I do know I sound like a broken record....:glare:

And because of this failure the whole business is suffering along with the enormous number of unwanted horses.

Case in point; the harness horse in the WEG opening ceremonies. He was skipping along in the back. How the heck can you sell this breed to knowledgeable horse people in other disciplines if you can't select horses that are perfect examples of a sound and serviceable horses.

[july]

[QUOTE=Mona129;88681]
I also like the idea of half priced entries on the first day or the alphabetical order. Both of those things, not good for Susie and Ed's bottom line however.
QUOTE]

actaully i think it would help the bottom line for the tse peeps. just think about it. more bidders/better or higher ends priced horses means more bidders at the sale to "bid" against each other equals higher commssions. it would be nice to see ALL the sellers have a chance to sell on ALL days. plus there would be more rooms sold/more food sold/more everything IF there was MORE bidders there on thursdays looking at/bidding on horses.
plus you will never convince me that the horses sold for so cheap were because they were "cheap" horses. i see unknown bloodlines/show records/big time named horses sell on friday/sat for DOUBLE what the same horse would bring on thursday, wonder why? bidders are not there !!!!

[asb_own_me]

IMO another thing that could be done - and isn't related to something that the sale could do differently - is asking owners and agents to think a little harder before pricing horses in ads.

This morning I looked at an ad for an ASB gelding that is 11 years old. The horse is advertised as a wonderful, suitable for most CP divisions mount, but has only ever won TWO classes and has been shown for 5-6 seasons. Why would you ask five figures for a country horse with a blah record?

I'm sorry this sounds harsh - but it's true. Not saying that this specific horse will end up at a sale, but there are plenty like him that are overpriced for what they really are. Think about it. Owners get extended, are still paying the training bill every month for a horse that's not going anywhere. They finally get far enough sunk that they decide to cut their losses - far too late. Horse goes to a sale, brings a pittance, goes to the road.

Alternative? The owner and/or agent could have come to a far more realistic price, likely about HALF the original asking price, gotten the horse sold privately to a good home, and spent less on training months prior to the sale of the horse. Owners come out ahead, rather than LOSING $$$$ on keeping the horse for so long, agent gets a bigger commission, the horse gets a stable home. Everyone wins.

Please, folks, THINK before pricing a horse.

[asb_own_me]

Additionally - if your horse has only shown in ONE class, and won that class, that's great. But for godsakes don't advertise the horse as "undefeated". Seriously. Do you think people won't check?

[kittymom]

Yes, and 20 years ago, no one would have put a full page ad in the magazines boasting about being a Reserve Champion at a horse show when there were only 2 in the class. We have become an industry that has to sugar-coat just about everything and it must being paying off or it wouldn't be done. The buyers of these horses are the fools, sometimes, I suppose.

[Kimasb]

It is not the number of buyers that makes a sale. It only takes 2 people who want the same horse to have a horse bring top dollar. A nice horse will bring a good price whatever day he goes thru. From what I saw today - yes the overall market and prices are down from past years but for the most part all the horses brought what they represented. Nice ones brought nice prices - the others - not so much. It was a buyers market but there were also a greta many that I would not have taken for free - sorry - thats just my opinion.

[asb_own_me]

Yes, and 20 years ago, no one would have put a full page ad in the magazines boasting about being a Reserve Champion at a horse show when there were only 2 in the class.

LOL that too!!!

[dixie]

I like what the Addis Arabian Auctions do. They have a select sale first, to bring in the buyers, all bids start at $500, nothing lower. They tell you if a horse has no bids, or doesn't meet the reserve, and encourage buyers to go back to the barn and talk to the seller to see if they can sell the horse privately. They have live feed and online bidding too.

[wilkinak]

IMO another thing that could be done - and isn't related to something that the sale could do differently - is asking owners and agents to think a little harder before pricing horses in ads.

This morning I looked at an ad for an ASB gelding that is 11 years old. The horse is advertised as a wonderful, suitable for most CP divisions mount, but has only ever won TWO classes and has been shown for 5-6 seasons. Why would you ask five figures for a country horse with a blah record?

I'm sorry this sounds harsh - but it's true. Not saying that this specific horse will end up at a sale, but there are plenty like him that are overpriced for what they really are. Think about it. Owners get extended, are still paying the training bill every month for a horse that's not going anywhere. They finally get far enough sunk that they decide to cut their losses - far too late. Horse goes to a sale, brings a pittance, goes to the road.

Alternative? The owner and/or agent could have come to a far more realistic price, likely about HALF the original asking price, gotten the horse sold privately to a good home, and spent less on training months prior to the sale of the horse. Owners come out ahead, rather than LOSING $$$$ on keeping the horse for so long, agent gets a bigger commission, the horse gets a stable home. Everyone wins.

Please, folks, THINK before pricing a horse.

I've known a few people guilty of this, and it was primarily because they had told their horse was worth mid 5 figures. Out of the field with 30 days of training. When your "professional expert" values your unbroke horse at $75K it's hard to take the honest offer of $8K after 2 shows and 6 months of training.

[Lovebird]

I have supported Tattersalls for years now and think it is a wonderful place to buy horses at as long as you do your homework. I will admit though that I have had considerable resistance from a number of trainers at the suggestion of buying a horse at the sale. Not my current trainer, but others. I believe this is one of the factors that might explain why more people don't buy from there. If your trainer is unwilling to look at the sale horses it would be very unwise to buy from there. If more trainers were willing to look at the sale as a prospective place to buy a show horse from we might have better attendance and better sale prices. As far as the non "show" horse types that go through the sale I personally think it would be better to sell these privately to the sport horse world. Off course that is a whole other topic. :) I think is a shame that people would sell old broodmares through the sale. Retire them on your farm or give them away. It breaks my heart to see those and I would take them all if we had more land. Just my five cents worth as an avid Tattersalls supporter.

[d1nonlyrocketpony]

I was there for the entire sale, and sold and bought on thursday. Yes, the Thursday and Sat. people were typically not "big time" people (that was more on Thursday). But realize that people that have been entering horses at the sale the longest get the best slots, and thats the way it should be - seniority.

My biggest issue was this - TURNOUT, TURNOUT, TURNOUT! You want top dollar for your horse??? Take the time to present it properly. Black the feet, whiten the whites, haircut, clean tack, show shoes, brace, washed, picked tail - do it right. I had one VERY early in the sale and she brought good money all things considered. You can't just drag them out of the pasture and expect top dollar!

[Jackandmo]

As far as the non "show" horse types that go through the sale I personally think it would be better to sell these privately to the sport horse world.

Naaaaaaaa. The sport horse types ARE show horses, so Tattersalls is the PERFECT place to get a great deal on a prospect.

I'll be utilizing Tattersalls before returning from overseas, and confident I'll find an amazing hunter or western prospect for a great price.

[lisacota]

I like what the Addis Arabian Auctions do. They have a select sale first, to bring in the buyers, all bids start at $500, nothing lower. They tell you if a horse has no bids, or doesn't meet the reserve, and encourage buyers to go back to the barn and talk to the seller to see if they can sell the horse privately. They have live feed and online bidding too.

They should have a base starting price above meat value. At least that would offer the horses some protection and sellers at least enough to cover the expense of taking the horse there. I know they must have a good reason for it but the no-sale fee is 300? Kinda steep and does not motivate to seller to take the horse back home ,if they get a rediculously low price.

Congradulations to the sellers that looked after their horses, to make sure they got good homes and where willing to no-sale them if they had to.

[Rooty Tooty]

As far as the non "show" horse types that go through the sale I personally think it would be better to sell these privately to the sport horse world.

Naaaaaaaa. The sport horse types ARE show horses, so Tattersalls is the PERFECT place to get a great deal on a prospect.

I'll be utilizing Tattersalls before returning from overseas, and confident I'll find an amazing hunter or western prospect for a great price.

I was fascinated by watching the live feed as I've never been to the sale. My takeaway was that this is not a sale for non-saddleseat show horses without gifted motion. There were many pretty, quiet horses that went for very little money. It made me wish our western and hunt divisions were stronger -- like in Morgans or Arabs -- and that we had more demand for these very usable horses within the Saddlebred show community.

[dedicatedhorsemom]

Additionally - if your horse has only shown in ONE class, and won that class, that's great. But for godsakes don't advertise the horse as "undefeated". Seriously. Do you think people won't check?

Even better -- I saw an ad for "Top Three" and there were only 3 in the class. Sometimes, it's best to just say nothing at all!

[lisacota]

I was fascinated by watching the live feed as I've never been to the sale. My takeaway was that this is not a sale for non-saddleseat show horses without gifted motion. There were many pretty, quiet horses that went for very little money. It made me wish our western and hunt divisions were stronger -- like in Morgans or Arabs -- and that we had more demand for these very usable horses within the Saddlebred show community.


well said.

[Smarter Than U Think]

Even better -- I saw an ad for "Top Three" and there were only 3 in the class. Sometimes, it's best to just say nothing at all!

I totally agree! There is nothing more fake than advertising a horse got a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd place when there was exactly that many horses in the class....hello...do you not think 1) people were there at the show and know what they saw, 2) people check results on-line and 3) people wonder why you advertise such a thing????

What did you accomplish by pointing this out?


"My father used to say "Son, If you're not first, you're last" - Rickey Bobby - Talledega Nights

[wilkinak]

They should have a base starting price above meat value. At least that would offer the horses some protection and sellers at least enough to cover the expense of taking the horse there. I know they must have a good reason for it but the no-sale fee is 300? Kinda steep and does not motivate to seller to take the horse back home ,if they get a rediculously low price.

Congradulations to the sellers that looked after their horses, to make sure they got good homes and where willing to no-sale them if they had to.

Sorry, but an auction is an auction, and everyone knows that the meat packers may be there. If you don't want your horse to be lunch meat, than don't run it through an auction. Same goes for those who get upset by those that go to the Amish. The Ams have been buying there for years, so it's not a shock to anyone.

The no sale fee is high, but those who accept $100 bids are still paying a $300 consignment fee (10% or $300 which ever is more). Either way the sellers lose money.

I don't see why some of those people with quiet horses don't give the lower level sport horse sales a try. I know - they don't know where they are. Sorry but nearly everyone knows how, or knows someone who know how, to Google by now, and I don't think that excuse is really valid. If I were looking for a sport horse, T'salls would be the last place I'd go.

[cblue08]

A little story that may give us something to think about....

Over on another forum (dressage), a competent amateur owner has been bringing along a young saddlebred cross for dressage and really enjoying it (seems to be her first real hands-on experience with ASBs?, but not sure)....has also seen a few of us ASB fans stories with 'alternative' sporthorse saddlebreds, because we post on non-saddlebred forums...got her to thinking she might want a full ASB one day...decided to go to Tattersalls this year...the Callaway sale Friday night...and bought a 2 yr old Callaway-bred ASB for $350...outbid the Amish for him and plans to use him as a sporthorse for dressage/all-around. He's cute, he's sound, he's got lots of bone and a big motor... and we'll see how it goes.

The point being, even though Tattersalls would not seem the place to go for a 'sporthorse'...for many amateurs, it may really be a great place to pick up a nice moving, ammi-friendly all-around horse for not a lot of money (plus the 'pool' for this type of horse owner is MUCH larger than the saddleseat pool). A half-dozen or more of bidders like this (on site, online or on the phone) might really help prop-up some of those no- or low-bids on what seem like perfectly nice horses that just don't have the action to make it in the saddleseat world...

...just a thought :)

[Mona129]

A little story that may give us something to think about....

Over on another forum (dressage), a competent amateur owner has been bringing along a young saddlebred cross for dressage and really enjoying it (seems to be her first real hands-on experience with ASBs?, but not sure)....has also seen a few of us ASB fans stories with 'alternative' sporthorse saddlebreds, because we post on non-saddlebred forums...got her to thinking she might want a full ASB one day...decided to go to Tattersalls this year...the Callaway sale Friday night...and bought a 2 yr old Callaway-bred ASB for $350...outbid the Amish for him and plans to use him as a sporthorse for dressage/all-around. He's cute, he's sound, he's got lots of bone and a big motor... and we'll see how it goes.

The point being, even though Tattersalls would not seem the place to go for a 'sporthorse'...for many amateurs, it may really be a great place to pick up a nice moving, ammi-friendly all-around horse for not a lot of money (plus the 'pool' for this type of horse owner is MUCH larger than the saddleseat pool). A half-dozen or more of bidders like this (on site, online or on the phone) might really help prop-up some of those no- or low-bids on what seem like perfectly nice horses that just don't have the action to make it in the saddleseat world...

...just a thought :)

Thats exactly what I just did. I got a three year old, cute, great mover, started right, never had shoes on, uncut tail, big boy with a great mind. Its a fabulous place to scoop up a great prospect! Its probably the best kept secret out there. But what I want to impress upon the breeders is this: There are those of us out there looking for these horses, we want to get more people looking for them and if they follow the blueprint for sport horse disciplines, take the time to put up some video, even going third in the sale, the horse can bring decent money. I paid a thousand dollars for Ginger/Bunny and I firmly beleive I got a great deal and someone even offered to buy him from me after the sale. Best kept secret around. Sometimes I want to be selfish and keep the gold mine unknown, but then I think of all those horses who end up someplace bad instead and I want to shout it from the rooftops to come get a great horse for not a lot of money because there are many to be had and they deserve a chance to be a great horse, just in a different discipline.

[cblue08]

Thats exactly what I just did. I got a three year old, cute, great mover, started right, never had shoes on, uncut tail, big boy with a great mind. Its a fabulous place to scoop up a great prospect! Its probably the best kept secret out there. But what I want to impress upon the breeders is this: There are those of us out there looking for these horses, we want to get more people looking for them and if they follow the blueprint for sport horse disciplines, take the time to put up some video, even going third in the sale, the horse can bring decent money. I paid a thousand dollars for Ginger/Bunny and I firmly beleive I got a great deal and someone even offered to buy him from me after the sale. Best kept secret around. Sometimes I want to be selfish and keep the gold mine unknown, but then I think of all those horses who end up someplace bad instead and I want to shout it from the rooftops to come get a great horse for not a lot of money because there are many to be had and they deserve a chance to be a great horse, just in a different discipline.


AMEN!

Get a nice all-around video of your horse, get it online and get some word out to non-saddlebred audiences, and I'd bet you get some 'lookers' that bid....Hands down it IS the best kept secret....

I have personally watched several other boarders at our barn, aspiring ammi dressage riders, spend $3,000-4,000 on QH/QH crosses (I like QHs, so don't get me wrong), but they have all struggled with these horses and will never get higher dressage scores because the quality of movement is not there, plus one horse does not canter and another is a dirty bucker and half-lame....meanwhile, I watched dead-broke (W-T-C), ammi-friendly, BEAUTIFUL!, SAFE!, ASBs with show experience go thru the sale for half those prices....

We need to get this 'secret' out...good homes, with appreciative owners, await! :wub:

[SmartAlex]

Bravo for her! Maybe she will start a trend.