Question about Long Lining

[saddlebredlover994]

I was just wondering how you run your lines. I usually run mine like a draw rein. I run it through the ring on the surcingle, through a runnning martingale, through the bit, then snap it back on the surcingle ring. Do any of you do it this way? What other ways do you usually run your lines, and do you usually use a running martingale?

I am just trying out some different ways, so any suggestions would be appreciated. thanks!

[SmartAlex]

I have found that what normally works best for the horse I have now is through the rings, through the bit, and then snap up to the side rein rings behind the eye. This gives me the right amount of gag lift for this horse.

I don't think I've ever used a running martingale, but I could be forgetting one. Generally, the only time I will double the rein back like a draw rein is if I'm jogging a fresh horse.
I've found that my lines are heavy enough that even with no pressure from my hands, a draw will tighten too much, and a light mouthed horse will learn the very annoying habit of diving into the bit to yank out some slack, especially when halted on the circle. This can be a problem even without a draw if the reins are too heavy, but with a draw, it is much more difficult for the person lining to give the horse some slack.

The one advantage of running the reins through the bit whether in a draw or a gag is that you will get a steady action on the bit rather than a lot of bit movement (think vibrating snaps) which can help some horses.

[wstrngrl]

Where I use a martingale or not depends on the horse and what I'm trying to accomplish. But generally not.

I usually run the outside rein through the ring and snap right to the bit, then the inside rein goes though the ring, through the bit, then back to a lower ring on the surcingle (if I'm working on bending and stretching the neck) or to a higher ring (if I'm working more on flexing and raising up)

[Sit]

I usually do not use a running martingale with draw reins (too many different angles) because I like to keep things as simple as possible. But the running martingale is often present and held up with a strap or shoe string, so I can undo the draw reins and just run the lines thru the martingale if I want to.

In theory, the draw reins help with vertical flexion (tucking nose down and back), but are not not as good for lateral flexion. The running martigale, expecially if it is fastened long, allows lateral flexion (left to right) and vertical flexion as well because it is just a modified straight rein.

Now that I think about it, maybe we could use two sets of lines -- one set of draw reins and one set thru a martigale. Just kidding -- violates the keep it simple rule!

Like Wstrngrl, I usually run the draw reins back to a loop on top of and dead center of the surcingle, but sometimes fasten them on a lower ring to start with. Depends on the horse, the bit, and what I am trying to accomplish that day.

Sounds like Smart Alex has a type of "ceiling bridle" that she can use on the fly by fastening the reins to the side check loops.

[cparker912]

Totally depends on the horse...
Draw lines going from band thru bit and back to band
Draw lines straight from my hands thru bit and to band(my favorite)
Straight lines
Lines thru bit and hooked to rings on top of bridle
Usually dont line with a martigale..just jog with one..

Ill change it up as Im working a horse depending on what they need....

[SmartAlex]

Draw lines straight from my hands thru bit and to band(my favorite)

This one is good for getting a nicer arc like a longe line, but always feels too loosey-goosey for me. I'll have to try it again though. Isnt this how kmmed1 lines? I think there were photos on SBR, but I can't see the photos from work.

[taylor]

I like cparker's way best too.

long lining requires body language too, just like riding and lunging.

[saddlebredlover994]

Thank you for all of the suggestions! I think i am going to test out all of the methods listed above to just see what works best. I want to see how each way affects my horse and then go from there.

[vlayne]

The line from your hand to the bit to the surcingle takes some practice, both for you and the horse. But once you get it, it's a great technique. It lessens the leverage on the bit and teaches the horse to carry themselves.

[silvia]

Mine are from the bit, through the side rings of the surcingle, to my hands.

[RKR]

Mine are from the bit, through the side rings of the surcingle, to my hands.

There are a zillion ways to attach long lines...just be aware anytime you have any draw to them you'll eventually need a different bit to get the same feel that the added leverage gives. So often when we think long lines we think of going in some sort of circle. When the horse drifts off that pattern he's hitting the weight of your body on his mouth unless you're moving also.....to get some flexion , try going outside without a wall and just going more straight lines, side pass a few steps, stop, soak, back 3-4 steps, etc. You'll be surprised how much more your horse will learn. Do this enough and you'll find yourself eliminating those draw lines and going to a straight line set up. As for heavy lines or light ones, Mueller used parachute chord.....what the horse felt was his hands....and isn't that the feeling we're trying to convey? RKR

[silvia]

Hey Bob, not sure if you were making a general comment or towards me as you quoted mine... but I don't use draws on the long reins. They go directly from my hands to the bit, through the surcingle. Sorry if I didn't write it well :tongue_smilie: I use light 10mm rope.

I consider a horse's mouth 'finished' when I can pick up the lines with my fingertips and the horse follows them softly, backwards all the way around the yard.

[Samigator]

usually I just go straight from my hands, through the surcingle, to the bit- no draw rein or martingale.

[RKR]

Hey Bob, not sure if you were making a general comment or towards me as you quoted mine... but I don't use draws on the long reins. They go directly from my hands to the bit, through the surcingle. Sorry if I didn't write it well :tongue_smilie: I use light 10mm rope.

I consider a horse's mouth 'finished' when I can pick up the lines with my fingertips and the horse follows them softly, backwards all the way around the yard.

No, wasn't directed at you at all. I just wanted to point out that draw lines and leveraged set-ups often don't deliver the results we want. While it looks good to see our horses flexing in draw lines, too often horses get dependent on them and it makes it even more difficult to go back to a straight . I also don't believe in soft mouths.....but a supple horse sure can give that impression. If we'd just focus more on soft relaxed necks, all kinds of good things happen. I have a feeling that's just what you're doing. RKR

[july]

I also don't believe in soft mouths.....

do tell more. i have always said/thought this. i like a horse that will actually let me "feel" or "take some sort of hold" on thier mouth.

[SmartAlex]

Soft mouthed horses drive me nuts. I like a horse that will seek contact like a dressage horse. Then you can put them where you want them. not pull mind you, just take the bit and not be over it or behind it or over reacting every minute.

RKR will probably tweak this quote for me, but Marty Mueller said that chicken hearted horses and curb bits don't mix.

[silvia]

I guess I look at it, the mouth is just another aid. Once the horse learns what is wanted, then it is my job to leave him alone unless I have something to say. If I have something to say, than I don't want to yell at him, he is right there! I would just like to say 'this way, please' and he follows, knowing what is wanted.

A steady head carriage comes from balance, strength and development for me, not from holding his head in one spot. If he is balanced and can go any direction keeping balance, he will put his head anywhere you like, within his conformation, without any problem.

This is not a soft mouth more an educated mind?

[SmartAlex]

This is not a soft mouth more an educated mind?

I think you and I have a difference of terminology. To me a soft mouth is a green or sensitive mouth (as opposed to a hard mouth) I label my ideal mouth a "responsive" mouth. But yes, the mouth doesn't really have anything to do with riding. It's just a signal receptor for the brain.

[RKR]

Soft mouthed horses drive me nuts. I like a horse that will seek contact like a dressage horse. Then you can put them where you want them. not pull mind you, just take the bit and not be over it or behind it or over reacting every minute.

RKR will probably tweak this quote for me, but Marty Mueller said that chicken hearted horses and curb bits don't mix.

Hmmmmm. ...I thought it was straight-necked horses and curb bits don't mix. Either one can cause a lot of problems though......

[RKR]

[QUOTE=RKR;81774]Hmmmmm. ...I thought it was straight-necked horses and curb bits don't mix. Either one can cause a lot of problems though......[/QUOTIt's strange....after years of training horses I've never quite understood what a "game" or "chicken-hearted" horse really was. I've heard people call horses "game " when they (apparently) wanted to GO, or pulled on the bridle, had no patience, wouldn't walk for more than a few steps, leaped into their gaits, wouldn't stand, etc. And then I hear horses referred to as "Chicken-hearted" when they were completely the opposite.....I've had horses that seemed to try harder than others, had a little more "want to" than others, etc. but I've always struggled with what gameness and chicken-hearted really is. Give me a horse that is responsive to cues properly taught and I'll simply call it a well-trained horse. RKR

[ASB_EQ_Gal]

But yes, the mouth doesn't really have anything to do with riding. It's just a signal receptor for the brain.

Therefore if you get the mouth right things should flow more easily from there. That's what I think. Soft hands are your best approach

[silvia]

[QUOTE=RKR;81774]I've always struggled with what gameness and chicken-hearted really is. Give me a horse that is responsive to cues properly taught and I'll simply call it a well-trained horse. RKR

I had my first experience of a horse that 'quit' a few weeks ago. I could actually see the moment she decided it was all too hard and gave up trying.

[RKR]

[QUOTE=RKR;83243]

I had my first experience of a horse that 'quit' a few weeks ago. I could actually see the moment she decided it was all too hard and gave up trying.

Exactly. I had the same thing happen many times...so often unbeknownst to us, we cram too much in their heads too quickly and they simply get confused.....and a confused horse will lock up, balk, etc., simply because it doesn't understand what we expect it to do. That's the time to go back and find something it understands and can give the right response. Expect a little, reward a lot, and keep it simple. RKR

[SmartAlex]

[QUOTE=RKR;81774]It's strange....after years of training horses I've never quite understood what a "game" or "chicken-hearted" horse really was.

Grey Horse is chicken-hearted. If he's met with too much resistance, he folds. He wimps out with a curb bit. He's also timid on the ground. He carefully inspects the cross tie area every day of his life in case we've replaced it with a giant pit. If you come at him with a syringe he gives you a pitiful look and nickers. It's not that he doesn't understand... he get's it, he just doesn't want to suck it up and do it. He can be really pathetic.

ETA: I was just thinking that I remember reading on CoTH once that a "game" horse has a little streak of "F-you" in his personality. That's the old "damn the torpedos, full steam ahead" mentality that the great show horses have. In my own words, the "chicken-hearted" horses might get things started, but it's more the "naner-naner-naner" attitude, then when you call them on it, or things don't go their way, they snivel and whine.