Saddlebred Shoes

[horses101870]

I thought I had seen were you can buy hand made "saddleseat" shoes advertised here:confused: If anyone knows please let me know! I haven't yet found a SS farrier to come out this way who is familiar with/or makes there own pleasure shoe's. The barn farrier has requested that I buy the shoes-nails-etc for him and he will put them on.

I have a few questions too about the shoes/ angles. Can you put pads behind/or front to help grow a heel? or add length if a horse wont grow a heel? what is the average weight length, angle of the CC or Western PL saddlebred? What does the low heel longer toe do you see alot of?

I know you cant show saddlebreds in western/CC with pads-Our horse is a non-reg saddlebred from SBR. I am looking at the pads more for comfort then any thing Else:D Has anyone ever used gel pads?? Like Doc Scholls???
He's our daughters Academy horse. Any insight would be Awesome!

[wstrngrl]

If he's an Academy horse there is no reason to put anything but a standard shoe with a standard trim. Unless he has problems with his feet (ie dished feet or low heel/high heel); in which case, any farrier that is well versed in corrective shoeing would be just fine.

We are currently using a "not saddle seat" farrier, who's a corrective trimming professional. Since we currently have 2 western/ CP horses, a SBR rescue, and a Belgian; he's more than sufficient. In fact, he's doing a much better job working with one of our western horse's dished hoof than any of our other previous "saddle seat" shoers.

I do not recommend allowing a farrier who has no "saddle seat" experience to mess with trying to figure out the angles, weights, and lengths of a saddle seat horse. It's an art all it's own taking years of apprenticeship to learn to do properly. And if done improperly, it can cripple a horse.

But to answer your other questions:

As far as I know, adding pads won't help grow hoof, either toe or heel. They might help protect the hoof from cracking/crumbling if they are of poor quality. That is one of the reasons our Belgian wears pads (but putting pads on is something any competent farrier should be able to do)

Yes, they are commonly used to add length if the heel won't grow, more specifically a wedge pad is used.

There is no average weight, length, or angle of a Western/CP horse, or any horse in any ASB division. It's whatever works best for that horse in that division; and often takes trial-and-error to figure out (which is why someone skilled is requisite otherwise you can easily try something very wrong that will take years to fix, if it's fixable at all... Trust me, I've seen it time and time again!)

The "low heel, long toe" does the same thing as more or less weight, a higher or lower angle, and more or less length. It changes the way the horse picks it's feet up and puts them down, changes the path the hoof takes through the air. The exact effect will depend on the exact change and the individual horse. Any specific change with effect each horse differently. IE adding more weight will cause one horse to pick it's feet up higher, and cause another to do the opposite, to carry them lower.

Is the horse uncomfortable? Does he show signs that he needs pads to make him comfortable? If he's sound and happy without pads, there's no reason to put them on. Depending on if he has any particular issues, giving him time to be barefoot would do him more good.

[SmartAlex]

If you're in Ohio, you ought to be able to find a good Saddlbred farrier quite easily. If you let us know what area of Ohio you're from, maybe some locals can chime in with some recommendations.

[horses101870]

Western girl-Can he go barefoot-No, he is turned out a few hours a day and is not growing any heel exspiecaly hind feet. They are barefoot and I want shoes on him BUT Farrier didn't have back shoes for him at the time. Is he in PAIN?-yes- this last trim he was way over due(5wks) cause of other Farriers not showing up -Barn Farrier trimmed him down to 4.5 in 54/56 %heel- He is now over on LT knee and off on the RT front because he's shorter then before and I feel he needs to get used to his shorter feet and he's too short for what he needs to stay sound. JMHO. I wanted a shoe ,like a walkers light shod keg, so he would have more support ect. He just has plates. I just want him comfortable and happy. I thought gel pads were used at times for horses that need some extra "cushion". I don't remember were I read it at:blush:

Has anyone ever herd of shoeing the front feet w/ back shoes for more support?
What conditions would need this?
I am west of Ceder Point 1.5hrs from Cleveland Ohio
1hr East of Toledo.

I don't mean to ask so many questions or sound stupid:D I'm just frustrated . Hes at a great quarter horse barn and thats half the problem is know-one out here has ever seen a Saddlebred or shod one. No farrier will come out for just 1 horse either I have found out the hard way!:yes:

[Jrchloe]

I don't understand what the breed has to do with a farrier doing a corrective (for comfort and soundness not motion) shoe? If the farrier is a qualified journeyman farrier there should be no "breed" issue for what you need.

[Hey4horses]

My farrier is from the Seville, OH area and does many ASB, Arabian, Draft show barns. He is an excellent horse shoer, gifted in making the horse comfy, correct and supported. He is a Shire owner/trainer/breeder too. Todd Riedel. PM me for his cell number and/or email. While I am a backyard person now with rescues, I have had many long years with Todd. Never seen a horse that he has not improved, or been able to quiet while working on their feet.

I had 15 years of foundered horses back to back, and after Grover became a full time minister, I was referred to him by Ken Wurst, and have never looked back. He is simply the best. I used others in our area while having horses in training and was not pleased with the unprofessional gossip and ego's that came along with their work. Todd is my friend too. I would not be able to keep my horses here without his kindness and loyalty.

[SmartAlex]

I don't understand what the breed has to do with a farrier doing a corrective (for comfort and soundness not motion) shoe? If the farrier is a qualified journeyman farrier there should be no "breed" issue for what you need.

Corrective shoeing doesn't have anything to do with breed, but if you want to establish a long term relationship with a farrier, and you know down the road you will be interested in improving motion (i.e. mentioning "saddbered shoes"), might as well find the right farrier from the start.

[sdlbredfan]

IMO too many QH type farriers do not understand basic farriery principles, considering that so many QH I have seen are wearing a smaller size shoe than they should with foot cut down to fit the blankety blank shoe. If your 'barn farrier' actually has some skill (from your description of what happened on last trim, I highly doubt his skill level) then the advice to just put normal pleasure horse shoes on him is correct. From your description of the result after trim, I'd be willing to bet the horse's foot was chopped without regard to the size of hoof, size of horse, angle of pastern etc, all things that a good farrier will pay attention to. Do you have any pictures of the hooves, ideally taken from as close to ground level as possible, both from the side, front and back? If you could share those here on the forum I'll betcha someone could give even better advice.

Since you mentioned this is an academy horse, remember the horse is not being judged, only the rider's horsemanship. That means it does not matter if the horse has any flashy motion or not, so you do not need 'special shoes' unless the horse needs something therapeutic.

Definitely follow the advice Hey4horses gave you, that advice is golden! (she knows her stuff and she has and has had some horses that really need/needed a highly skilled farrier.)
Jeanie
edited to add, if it turns out that the horse is about ready for a trim around the same time you are going to a show, you might luck out on having that done at the show. However, IMO, using the farrier recommended by Anne makes a heckuva lot more sense.

[D_BaldStockings]

You may want to ask questions on this forum as well
http://www.horseshoes.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16

They would likely need pix and a description of what is going on to help you and your farrier.

Personally, I'm not a fan of horses going lame AFTER the farrier works on them, but there may be more to this than just ouchy barefoot. I think you need professional farrier advice, maybe a second opinion..does your vet have a list of local farriers other than the barn farrier?

Sometimes it is worth it to trailer your horse to another barn when their farrier will be there (and have an appointment with him/her) in order to have a better chance for your horse's soundness if you can't get him to travel to you.

Agree with others, it isn't the breed of horse causing your problem.

[Greg Doggett]

I agree. Load him up and take him to the farrier if he won't come to you. I had to do that myself until i learned to shoe my own horses.

I recommend learning as much as possible about horse shoeing and trimming so that if you have to use a QH farrier you can tell him exactly what you want.


the difference in quarter horse farriers and gaited horse farriers is that correctly shoeing a quarter horse is not an exact science like shoeing a gaited horse. You can really mess up a horse's gait if don't get the same angles on the front feet and the same angles on the back feet. Then even if you do get a gaited horses feet even he may have faults that can be corrected by lowering one side of the affected foot or changing the angle or any number of things. And then you also have the pads with gaited horses. Quarter horses on the other hand most of the time need shoes only for protection. So a farrier who specializes in quarter quarter really just needs to know how to nail a shoe on.

[graymare]

A good farrier is worth their weight in gold. For any horse, it's a matter of recognizing and workng with the way they are built. I always try to remember it's not like us, we can take a pair of uncomfortable shoes off. They have to live with it.

Trimming the hoof is as important as what you nail on. For example, Cody is over at the knee and has a short Deep Digital Flexor Tendon (DDFT). Several years ago a saddlebred farrier shortened his heels. He was so lame he could not walk out of the stall after a few days. What we did to him was like a women who wore high heels all her life and then was forced to wear flats. He is now shod in a slightly rockered shoe that allows him to choose the break over point. This has allowed him to stretch that DDFT and his legs are actually straightening out. But we didn't force the issue. And made changes VERY slowly. But we came up with this solution after taking him to an (international) expert in Lexington, letting my previous farrier learn from him (but he still wanted to do it his way) and finally switching to another farrier that is more open to learning. So I know your pain. It's really hard to get a good farrier out for one horse. It's also a very complicated art. But without a good farrier you don't have a horse to ride. And your horse will let you know if it's right or not. If he's in pain, something is wrong.

It looks like a few people might have some options for experienced farriers. And if you find good farrier who puts on balanced shoes (and I agree make sure they are big enough and support the heel. Most saddlebreds need that extra heel support), he should be able to shoe your horse. I am worried about the farrier who thinks it's a matter of ordering the saddlebred shoes and nailing them on. Every saddlebred in our barn right now has a totally different setup. Some light, some with trailer in the back, some heavy, some with a closed back, some a simple plate. It all depends on the feet they were given and what other issues they may have going on. Our Academy horses are flat shod with a light pad or wedge if they need it. Most are barefoot on the back. You mentioned you were worried about his heel length in the back. Remember the back feet are VERY different than the front and have a lower heel.

If your horse is sore after shoeing, something is wrong. I'd definitely see if you can get another farrier. Good luck. I know it's really hard. But remember you are the only one that can be your horses advocate! And you will have more years of enjoying your horse for your effort. Congratulations on choosing to adopt a rescue. He's lucky to have found a family.

[Rooty Tooty]

I had to find a new farrier after I gave up on our saddlebred farrier. He was busy, and we were really low on the list with just 2 horses. Any big barn's emergency would bump us back, until my horses were almost 5 weeks overdue at one point. I decided healthy, balanced feet were more important than "saddlebred feet."

I found our new farrier by asking my vet for a recommendation. New farrier is the one that does a lot of corrective work for our vet, and I'm thrilled with the results. He is always on time, so the horses are getting very regular care, and they're holding shoes better than before. I would love to see more heel and a longer toe for potentially more motion, but my horses is completely sound, so I'm happy.

Asking your vet may be a route to go if you're looking for an overall good farrier.

[horses101870]

OK everyone I have contacted 2 Farrier per 2 people I trust on here. Yes the shoes are 1 size too small-I did ask for heel support and got a small plate on front. :hammer: not a keg shoe. I asked the barn owner if her "trimmer" would be willing to have me get a saddlebred farrier out to put what I want on and then I would know what to order for this guy she has-There is way too many products out for me to get all the supplies this guy needs- She stated that she does know-he doesn't care if I find another farrier cause he doesn't want to deal with me and my personality or learn how to shoe a saddlebred and hes too old(50) to learn new things????-I don't have the barns farrier telephone # to call him myself and ask and I'm kinda over a barrel-I don't have a 5-wheel in my truck right now to haul the owner trailer's to someplace else and get him shod. She thinks Im OCD and too picky for as she states"what the horse is" . She only said this when I wanted a cushion pad on his fronts cause he wont grow any heels. In this area there aren't many horse farms cause its all good farm land and people are more into cows. My problem before in finding a person to shoe him was its just 1 horse and not the H/J or Quarter type they work on usually. They were good Farriers just no show no calls. Sorry to babble on:blush:

[horses101870]

I don't have the vets # either-will be meeting him tomorrow-owner pays for everything and we pay her back. I think she does this for tax reasons





I had to find a new farrier after I gave up on our saddlebred farrier. He was busy, and we were really low on the list with just 2 horses. Any big barn's emergency would bump us back, until my horses were almost 5 weeks overdue at one point. I decided healthy, balanced feet were more important than "saddlebred feet."

I found our new farrier by asking my vet for a recommendation. New farrier is the one that does a lot of corrective work for our vet, and I'm thrilled with the results. He is always on time, so the horses are getting very regular care, and they're holding shoes better than before. I would love to see more heel and a longer toe for potentially more motion, but my horses is completely sound, so I'm happy.

Asking your vet may be a route to go if you're looking for an overall good farrier.

[wstrngrl]

Yes the shoes are 1 size too small-I did ask for heel support and got a small plate on front. :hammer: not a keg shoe.

Just FYI, "plate" is just another term for "keg" :sailor:

I will again recommend finding a 'regular' farrier who's good with corrective trimming. As others have said, your vet should know of a few; otherwise an internet search for Certified farriers might be an option.

Here's the site for the American Farrier's Assoc. ; which my farrier is a member of;
http://www.theamericanfarriers.com/home.html

the results for the state of Ohio..
http://americanfarriers.org/find_a_farrier/state_results.php?state=36&Submit=Submit

[wilkinak]

OK everyone I have contacted 2 Farrier per 2 people I trust on here. Yes the shoes are 1 size too small-I did ask for heel support and got a small plate on front. :hammer: not a keg shoe. I asked the barn owner if her "trimmer" would be willing to have me get a saddlebred farrier out to put what I want on and then I would know what to order for this guy she has-There is way too many products out for me to get all the supplies this guy needs- She stated that she does know-he doesn't care if I find another farrier cause he doesn't want to deal with me and my personality or learn how to shoe a saddlebred and hes too old(50) to learn new things????-I don't have the barns farrier telephone # to call him myself and ask and I'm kinda over a barrel-I don't have a 5-wheel in my truck right now to haul the owner trailer's to someplace else and get him shod. She thinks Im OCD and too picky for as she states"what the horse is" . She only said this when I wanted a cushion pad on his fronts cause he wont grow any heels. In this area there aren't many horse farms cause its all good farm land and people are more into cows. My problem before in finding a person to shoe him was its just 1 horse and not the H/J or Quarter type they work on usually. They were good Farriers just no show no calls. Sorry to babble on:blush:

I would suggest that you start looking for a new barn. I've been the "OCD owner" and it isn't going to get any better. I would also be a bit concerned about not paying the vet or blacksmith directly. You may end up paying them twice - once to her, and once for real; it's happened to people before.