Stonewall

[saddlebreds_and_buses]

Are there still any good horses out of the Stonewall line?? Just wondering. I like the bloodline, and have heard a friend who had a horse out of the line too.

[GottaDrive]

Emily,

There are many very nice stallions that go back to Stonewall King, either top or bottom line. Be careful with names, there are horse in pedigrees that have Stonewall in their name but may not even remotely trace back to Stonewall King. I have a weanling by Mountainview's Heir to Fortune. He traces back to Stonewall King on both his top and bottom lines.

[saddlebreds_and_buses]

Emily,

There are many very nice stallions that go back to Stonewall King, either top or bottom line. Be careful with names, there are horse in pedigrees that have Stonewall in their name but may not even remotely trace back to Stonewall King. I have a weanling by Mountainview's Heir to Fortune. He traces back to Stonewall King on both his top and bottom lines.

Ahh! Good to know. I guess they can pick any name if they want, can't they? What disc. do you think the yearling will excell in? My friend said in the 80's that they were having some pretty decent Country Pleasure and Western Pleasure horses but she hadn't seen much out of the blood line much after that. (Of course she also wasn't actively in the industry,,,)

[GottaDrive]

She is athletic and has an incredibly correct head and neck. It too soon to tell if she'll trim but she'll do something.

[cheyenne]

If you are looking for a lot of Stonewall Breeding I would look at Stonewall's Above Airs or my stallion that is a full brother to him. Both have GREAT intense Stonewall breeding. Stonewall Above Airs has produced some very nice futurity babies that have won!

[attafox]

I'm a New Yorker carries Stonewall King through his sire New Yorker. You could look for offspring of those two bred to mares carrying Stonewall - such as Joe Fabulous.

I have a filly by I'm a New Yorker out of a mare carrying Stonewall King, and she's definitely of the slow to mature line. Is it Stonewall King? Is it something else? She's fairly removed from him (although he shows on her papers top/bottom), but her mama was slow to mature as well. Good bone. And yes, we bred the best of the sire back - being the Stonewall King.

[D_BaldStockings]

According to the Saddle and Bridle mag's sire ratings, Stonewall King was #1 sire and sired 3 #1 sire sons: Stonewall Premiere, Starheart Stonewall and Stonewall Supreme.

So far this is an unequalled record, though his #1 sons were all born in the 1940's.

A fourth son Stonewall's Golden Dream was also a great contributor to the breed.

The WGC's Oak Hill Chief, The Finest Hour, La La Success, Supreme Airs, The Thunderbird, Technistar, Carol Carson, Shadow's Creation, Black Irish, Glenview Mandala, Ronald Reagan are all within 1-2 generations of these sires; Foxfire's Prophet, Belle Elegant, Radiant Success in the 3rd.

As broodmare sires, they were wonders and you will find them behind most of the dams of today's horses if you look. So, yes there are plenty of those good genes still gracing show rings, trails, pastures and broodmare bands to this day.

Usually with an attitude and plenty of stamina!

[sunridge]

I'll never understand why the "late maturing thing" is a bad unless you make a living flipping horses. I digress....

I have 3 viable mares, all are line bred Stonewall King . One has just 4 crosses (bottom line is a direct line to a daughter of Rexall Prince ( most likely an X-factor producer) she shows Nancy Highland in her 4-generation pedigree! Her daughters however have 13 (10 year old) and 16 (2 year old) crosses. Yeah I'm kind of partial to Stonewall King especially on the dam line. The 10 year old is a paternal sister to Sport.

The 2 year old is my culmination of ASB lines that I believe are important breeding stock. She
hasn't disappointed.

[GottaDrive]

I like Stonewall King bloodlines; however, late maturing is a problem for several reasons.

1) It is great fun to be able to show your horse in 3 and 4 year old classes. These classes help you gauge how good your horse really is. They often have good prize money. And, your horse has a good chance of doing well.

2) Late maturing means additional years of board and training before you can use the horse. I'm assuming most people who breed a horse do want to use it.

3) It is nice to be able to sell young stock. The longer you train them the larger your investment. It is exceptionally difficult to sell a horse that is not wearing tack and jumps around like jack rabbit,

4) Some late maturing horses, including some Stonewall King crosses, are bad actors when they are young. This behavior wears thin real fast.

[walkinghorseowner]

A question regarding late maturing... if the late maturing horse is developed according to his intrinsic needs, does this produce an exceptionally sturdy animal with little physical/mental problems. If so would the reintroduction of more late maturing bloodlines, increase the length of "usability" in a show horse. In othere words, does there seem to be more "vigor" in the late maturing horse?

[sunridge]

^ A resounding YES.

[sunridge]

Maybe if they aren't burned out by 4 years old they wouldn't be "bad actors". Not one of mine have been difficult because I have never pushed them beyond their capability.

[D_BaldStockings]

Extended usability in broodmares is not a bad thing either.

[RKR]

Maybe if they aren't burned out by 4 years old they wouldn't be "bad actors". Not one of mine have been difficult because I have never pushed them beyond their capability.AND there you have it.....horsetraining 101 RKR

[mlinky]

Exactly. My boy is loaded with Stonewall. He was slow to physically mature. He went to his first horse show when he was 5, and didn't show again until he was 6. He was never pushed, and, as his trainer says, he has never had a bad thought in his entire life.

[cheyenne]

The horse that grows to fast will break down faster if pushed as hard as some do!!! What do you have in a couple of years??? A horse that was great for a little while......

[Anke]

This bloodline was Herb's favorite! They are tough horses and will push back if pushed too hard and too early. If we would stop trying to mature them in 2-3 years and allow these horses to mature at their own rate AND build the bone, muscle and brain cells it takes, they do get old, they have a mind of their own, they love to please, you can show them for a long time and I think they are overall great horses. I still have the last colt by Starlord, he is STILL maturing and I am going to let him mature. Both parents were way into their 20's when he was born.

[StilettosAndBoots]

There is a fabulous Chestnut stallion owned by Tina English in Pleasanton, KS named Lord O'Blue Mountain. He is stonewall bred. http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/lord+o+blue+mountain

[sunridge]

What an interesting distaff pedigree, contains many horses I've never seen on a pedigree before. Are there any pictures of him?

[StilettosAndBoots]

There aren't. However, I used to board my horses with her and would visit her studs every time I was there. He's kind of peculiar. He's very very game, but a sweetheart when you're just "relaxing" with him. He's got the old looks and has somewhat of a plain roman nose. But he has a wonderful topline that ties into great big poppy shoulders. He's got a short back and is really able to get his hocks underneath him. I've messed with 2 of his colts. One was out of a Sultan mare, and the other out of a double bred Worthy Son mare. Both trot above level at 2 and 3 and are built just like dad, but they were a little classier looking. But they still had good heavy bone. However, they were typical (slow developers). She had no intentions of starting them for another year or so the last time I talked to her. But they were dolls. They were very smart and personable and lovable. They wanted to play with you too! But honestly, these guys were built to last. And the mares (Also worked with both of her broodmares) were of fine bone. The one had a short neck, and he put a nice hingy neck on the colt. The Sultan mare through a beautiful colt. He's springy and athletic and breathtaking to watch. He should have been a futurity baby, but she didn't have time.

[saddlebreds_and_buses]

I suppose I forget that they all won't have Stonewall in their name. I also didn't know he was that popular of a sire. I always hear about Winged Commander, Bourbon King. etc.\
By the way, for registering, what is the character limit? I know you can have things like apostrophes and such, right? jw. I keep having these show names pop in my head. They're very different and I'm making a list. I won't say my personal favourite, cause I'm going to save it if I have a foal someday, but my second favourite one is, "I sent the pope a letter." and Run Me a Line. Not to mention, BeDoubleHeDoubleAreYouIn. That one sounds more like a race horse name.

[sdlbredfan]

Gottadrive's comments, in message 9, were from the perspective of showing or selling (as Sunridge said, flipping horses, LOL), but not every one breeds for those purposes. Sometimes people just want to produce a nice horse that they can enjoy for a long time, and if that is the goal, the slower maturing horses are wonderful. As others have said, if slower maturing horses are not rushed through training or treated roughly, not treated in any manner that will fry their brains, they are awesome. (As RKR said, Horsetraining 101. I think that is good advice that actually applies to any horse!)
Jeanie

[GottaDrive]

Just about everyone buys or breeds, uses in some way, and sells. This is not flipping horses. Lets say a horse is 5 or 6 before it can be taken to a horse show. This means from the time you bred a mare its been 7 to 8 years. You've missed all the 3 and 4 year old classes where your horse has its best chance of doing well. And, they're hard to sell when they get to be 11 or 12 regardless of breeding. Almost all my horses have some Stonewall blood. I like this. However, if you get too much be prepared for a long and slow process.

Why knowingly do this when there are many good and possibly better alternatives? Also, run the math and think about how much is invested in one of these horses before you can use them for anything or even know if they will ever be any good for anything.