saddlebred bit

[dressageQT]

hi everyone!! i'm new to the forums and just made account because a client of mine just bought a saddlebred and a walker and i know NOTHING about gaited horses! lol... so i may ask lots of questions and need some help :) my first question is with bits... i read on here that i think some ppl said to ride the SB in a snaffle.... well i rode her yesterday (for the first time) in a D-ring with rollers and it was horrible!! lol... she was throwing her head and not listening at all.... so what do you guys suggest?! I'm not gonna be showing her till i learn alot more so i just need a good light east bit to use on her for scholling and trail riding!!! from what i understand from the previous owner she use to be a show horse... and from what i could tell she knows alot.... but i dont truely know what to look for!!! so that'll be continued till i futher my knowledge in the breed..... and if you guys have any suggestions for the TWH for a bit i'd be very thankful.... thank you and feel free to shot me emails and suggestions!! thanks

[SmartAlex]

The Dee ring should be fine as long as it fit her mouth. I'd suggest a second set of reins on a running martingale. Or if you're not up the the challenge of double reins, then just one set but still use the martingale. And not one of those western training forks either. you need a nice long one designed either for a hunt seat horse, or specifically a Saddleseat training type one. With a quick trip to the hardware store you can even make yourself one.

[mlinky]

It may not be the bit. No offense intended but dressage horses tend to be ridden with much more contact than a saddlebred show horse. For "work" she was likely ridden with a plain loose ring broken snaffle and a running martingale, with a light hand.

[dressageQT]

i just started dressage... lol.. second lesson is sunday, so im not your typical dressage rider.... im having issues with my trainer because i have a very light and loose hand... you'll never see me in the mouth of a horse (unless I'm being yelled at by my trainer, lol) so i know it wasnt the fact i was in her mouth to much..... i'll try a regular snaffle, i'm a little unsure with the double reins... i also think the rollers had alot to do with her issue.... the bit fit perfectly, i'm the person at my barn that everyone asks about fitments on the bits...... so i know it fit well.... thank you for your suggestions :) keep them coming....

[vlayne]

She might be used to being ridden in a german martingale and need the steadiness of that to ride correctly. If she's a puller/head tosser she was most likely ridden mostly in a german, probably with a twisted wire, bike chain or mule. Of course start with the mildest bit and go from there.

[SmartAlex]

How were the horses ridden before? It may be that neither of them have ever been in a single rein snaffle before. The martingale gives a certain amount of hand steadying, and a different angle on the pressure. And you know the double bridle is a whole nuther ball of wax. So, the mare may just have felt too much unfamiliar, unsteady freedom in her mouth.

Personally, my horse goes in a 5" loose ring french link happy mouth bit and two reins and he does just great. In the spring we add a running martingale to keep his head out of the clouds and give me some added leverage (I know I know Tif, but you haven't convinced me yet.) But, the ones wehave that are used to the feel of a martingale or a double bridle would be pretty shocked if I put just a snaffle and two reins on them.

[dressageQT]

She might be used to being ridden in a german martingale and need the steadiness of that to ride correctly. If she's a puller/head tosser she was most likely ridden mostly in a german, probably with a twisted wire, bike chain or mule. Of course start with the mildest bit and go from there.

yeah she did pull alot and there was no tension even on the reins?!! i was also told she was also used for jumping?! if that helps any also... i did ride her in my barrel saddle just cause i didnt know how she was..... she does have alot of go.... and my barrel saddle is very light with a round skirt.... also had a nice leather breast collar on her..... I'll ride her in my english saddle tonight with a martingale... maybe the saddle had something to do with it also? it fit ok.... and wasnt causing any pain..... just for being 17yro she has alot of spunk.. lol

[dressageQT]

How were the horses ridden before? It may be that neither of them have ever been in a single rein snaffle before. The martingale gives a certain amount of hand steadying, and a different angle on the pressure. And you know the double bridle is a whole nuther ball of wax. So, the mare may just have felt too much unfamiliar, unsteady freedom in her mouth.

Personally, my horse goes in a 5" loose ring french link happy mouth bit and two reins and he does just great. In the spring we add a running martingale to keep his head out of the clouds and give me some added leverage (I know I know Tif, but you haven't convinced me yet.) But, the ones wehave that are used to the feel of a martingale or a double bridle would be pretty shocked if I put just a snaffle and two reins on them.

not sure on how they were ridden before.... i didnt even know they were looking at these horses..... i went to the barn yesterday and the owners were like SURPRISE!! look at what we got.... (gotta love impulse buyers) so from what i understand, the ppl my client got them from had nothing for the horses.... so they took the D-ring snaffle and said both did alright in it.... but did say she acted the same way in it as she did with me....

[SmartAlex]

So you might be dealing with horses that didn't really go well before, and have may have minimal training. Faced with that, I'd go for a mild snaffle (without the rollers) and a running martingale then build from there.

[dressageQT]

So you might be dealing with horses that didn't really go well before, and have may have minimal training. Faced with that, I'd go for a mild snaffle (without the rollers) and a running martingale then build from there.

thank you :-D

[sparkle]

just for being 17yro she has alot of spunk.. lol

Welcome to Saddlebreds!!! :wub:
We like "spunk" LOL :tooth: :yes:

Great advice here from people who know LOTS- so you'll figure it out, I'm sure!! Sounds like maybe a few new things are being thrown at her and she just needs to figure out how you ride and want you want from her.... good luck!! And welcome to to trot! :flowers:

[vlayne]

Well, there is a big difference in the horses' background if she was a show horse, versus a poorly trained horse "sometimes used for jumping." Show horses are trained very differently than a backyard horse who trail rides and goes over a log or two.

So knowing that (or basically, knowing not much LOL) I would start her from the beginning as if she's an unbroke colt and go from there. You'll find the holes in her training, obviously a big one with wearing a bridle, and you'll have to work through each one.

[dressageQT]

Welcome to Saddlebreds!!! :wub:
We like "spunk" LOL :tooth: :yes:

Great advice here from people who know LOTS- so you'll figure it out, I'm sure!! Sounds like maybe a few new things are being thrown at her and she just needs to figure out how you ride and want you want from her.... good luck!! And welcome to to trot! :flowers:

lol... yeah i've only ever seen and been around 1 other saddlebred and that was like 10 years ago... i never knew how animated and spunky they were... lol.... i mean i had a blast on her, just want her to be comfortable..... cause i can deal with it and ride her throught it.... but dont wanna cause her any confusion or discomfort..... im looking forward to going out to the barn this afternoon to ride her again... i can get used to this gaited way of riding..... i think i have to say is that her canter is probably the funniest thing ive ever ridden.... and ive been riding for 23 years and actually breaking/training for 13 years.... but cantering on her was a blast..... she would go very very slow or fast.... but her feet was always very high it felt... lol.... a blast!!!!

[dressageQT]

Well, there is a big difference in the horses' background if she was a show horse, versus a poorly trained horse "sometimes used for jumping." Show horses are trained very differently than a backyard horse who trail rides and goes over a log or two.

So knowing that (or basically, knowing not much LOL) I would start her from the beginning as if she's an unbroke colt and go from there. You'll find the holes in her training, obviously a big one with wearing a bridle, and you'll have to work through each one.

yeah... exactly what i was thinking.... looks like i'll be on here alot :) so i'll start with a bit/bridle..... fun fun.....

[wstrngrl]

Also check how you fit the bit height-wise. many dressage/sport horses people adjust their bits higher than saddle seat folks. Normally (for saddle seat) you don't want any wrinkles at the corners of the mouth; one at the very most. If adjusted too high it can make them very fussy.

[dressageQT]

Also check how you fit the bit height-wise. many dressage/sport horses people adjust their bits higher than saddle seat folks. Normally (for saddle seat) you don't want any wrinkles at the corners of the mouth; one at the very most. If adjusted too high it can make them very fussy.

oh wow ok... i didnt know that!!!! so NO wrinkles?!! ok maybe one at most..... and thats ok with a snaffle?!! that just seems like it would be too loose..... but ya'll are experts :) i'll try that, cause i def. had 2 wrinkles on both sides..... :( thank you

[SmartAlex]

I'm a no-wrinkles gal :winkiss: In fact, I love a waterford bit because I expect my horses to carry their own bit. So, when I was having some snaffle bit issues and had the horse dentist out, she and I also adjusted his bridle. She is from a hunter/jumper background, and the first thing she did was raise the bit one hole. Now we have 1 wrinkle.

[D_BaldStockings]

Pardon me for butting in, I am not clear what discipline you have been riding and training in?
And what do your clients want from the horse? What is their level of experience?

Some of the answers that will help you depend on that info. :)

Welcome to Saddlebreds! I think you'll get a lot of fun out of your new mounts.

[dressageQT]

Pardon me for butting in, I am not clear what discipline you have been riding and training in?
And what do your clients want from the horse? What is their level of experience?

Some of the answers that will help you depend on that info. :)

Welcome to Saddlebreds! I think you'll get a lot of fun out of your new mounts.

i do western, english, jumping and speed events..... they just want a trail horse for them.... and for me to possibly show the ASB.... they are strong beginners.... thank you

[vlayne]

If this horse was trained by a Saddlebred trainer, yes, the bit was probably lower than what you normally find in other English disciplines. However, that also means the tongue was probably tied. But here again, we are making assumptions based on what little information you have provided.

I would just stick to what you know best, fix the problems the exact same way you would fix them on one of your own horses. Just because she is a Saddlebred, or was possibly trained Saddle Seat, does not mean the normal rules don't apply.

And the two rules are:
1. Try it, and if it don't work, try something else. ;)
2. Your horse will be the one the rules don't work on

[3mares]

I spent this summer dealing with bits on my new mare too. I went through several different bits, trying them in different places, with and without caveson, etc. I also knew nothing about how she was worked before. The formula that worked for her was a smooth loose ring that hangs pretty low (no wrinkles) in her mouth without a caveson. She was fussy in the mouth until I finally lowered it that last hole and now she is happy! I also had to play with the rein thing too. I went from using draws up high, down low, down really low, just a single rein(which I hate riding with one rein) and ended up with the two sets of reins, bottom one through the martingale. My martingale has to be really long though for her. A german martingale would probably work but I don't have one so I didn't try it. With mine I also have to ride her with a longer rein and even less contact than what I am used to. And I have always ridden saddle seat. So, even though your hands are good, maybe you need to give her her head a little more. Just some thoughts of what worked for me, of course they are all different. You'll have fun figuring it all out though! Welcome to Saddlebreds. Be ready to fall in love!

[dressageQT]

so just an update... went to the local tack shop... come to find out the owner used to be in to saddlebreds... so first thing she handed me was a kimberwick(sp,lol) with a low port.... so i rode the mare tonight in the kimberwick ( 1 wrinkle) with my english saddle, with a running martingale... much MUCH better.... but still at a walk or standing she was pulling on the reins.... absolutely no pressure was on reins... was she just stretching her neck? but much better ride tonight.... but i got a ton of bits to try, saturday will be my next day out there due to my "real" job... training is my job on the side.... so saturday night i'll have more info.... thanks for all the help and suggestions.... and i'm glad to be here... oh and i already think i'm falling in love!! she's a blast....

[♥Gabrielle♥]

If that's what works for you and her, that's great. I personally don't like the Kimberwick (tried it on my NSH, it makes him go terribly behind vertical) and not many Saddlebred people use them, it's more of an Arab thing. But again, to each thier own and whatever works to get her comfortable...
However, I would think twice about using the martingale and the kimberwick togther though. If you choose to keep the Kimberwick, remove the curb chain or ditch the martingale. The martingale and the chain have two seperate actions on the jaw, and might cause her to be even more confused. Just my 2 cents..

Enjoy the experience of the Saddlebred, but be careful, they are addictive! LOL
Good luck and have fun!
Kate

[wstrngrl]

The owner of the tack shop was in to Saddlebreds, and she handed you a kimberwick? Seems odd...

I agree with Gabrielle. I don't much care for kimberwicks, and they're generally not used on ASB show horses. Maybe for a hunt seat ASB, but not a saddle seat one. Also, a martingale has no place on any bit with a curb chain (which a kimberwick should have) unless you know exactly what you're doing with it. A kimberwick without a curb chain is basically just a D-ring snaffle; which you can use with a martingale with.

[WarDance]

I really like visuals so here is a typical set up for a Saddlebred that's working:
http://www.horsebackridingnj.com/Imgs/ridinglesson2.jpg

Probably the most common work bit for a Saddlebred is the mule bit (or bicycle chain).

Seen here: http://www.valleyvet.com/group_images/31743_A.jpg
The smooth or rigid side can be used.

[wstrngrl]

EEK!

Most common work bit is more likely a twisted wire snaffle:
http://www.4showhorsetack.com/images/singletwistedwireworksnaffle25-105.jpg

http://www.4showhorsetack.com/images/22wdlowry3inchoring.jpg

Maybe a bike chain (shown here with half checks, but also used as a loose ring.)
http://www.4showhorsetack.com/images/clbicyclechain22ad.jpg

Dr. Bristols, either with smooth or twisted sides, also seem to be (or seem to be becoming) popular
http://www.4showhorsetack.com/images/clsmoothsnafflebristol22-rd.jpg

With mule bits being reserved for the more hard-mouthed or 'strong headed' horses. I would say a mule bit might be most common on lesson horses, but not on show horses.

[D_BaldStockings]

EEK!

Most common work bit is more likely a twisted wire snaffle:
http://www.4showhorsetack.com/images/singletwistedwireworksnaffle25-105.jpg

http://www.4showhorsetack.com/images/22wdlowry3inchoring.jpg

Maybe a bike chain (shown here with half checks, but also used as a loose ring.)
http://www.4showhorsetack.com/images/clbicyclechain22ad.jpg

Dr. Bristols, either with smooth or twisted sides, also seem to be (or seem to be becoming) popular
http://www.4showhorsetack.com/images/clsmoothsnafflebristol22-rd.jpg

With mule bits being reserved for the more hard-mouthed or 'strong headed' horses. I would say a mule bit might be most common on lesson horses, but not on show horses.

Since this horse is hoping to become a mount for an advanced beginner eventually, I personally would not be looking through a bag of bits at this point. I would put on a simple snaffle where she is comfortable with it in her mouth and ge to work.

Finding the right bit is a polishing end of the training process and this mare is likely much nearer the beginning. So long as she is responsive enough to turn and slow/halt in response to a plain and simple bit well fitted, save your money and put some work miles on her.
Find out if she responds to verbal cues. If not, put her back on the lunge or in lines and get her there.
Ride her and get her straght on her cues to walk, trot, canter and halt. She is likely confused, fussy and annoyed now since vacation is over andyou are a new deal; train her to clear and simple responses to clear and simple cues.
Then you can start putting her together with her owner and the two of them with you coaching and correcting and guiding will become a team.

Equipment is not the answer- yet. Some sweaty saddle pads are in order. Enjoy!

[wstrngrl]

Mostly I agree, though finding a bit that's she's comfortable and responsive in will make all other work go much easier. 'no mouth, no horse'

Since she is going to be a mount for a beginner, and being trained by someone unfamiliar with both ASBs and saddle seat; the last bit I would recommend is a mule bit; or a bike chain, as both can be very harsh in the wrong hands (of course, so can a smooth snaffle, but it takes alot more work ;) )

I would definitely recommend sticking to something simple, a loose ring snaffle with either a singe or double joint (like a Dr. Bristol or French link)

[D_BaldStockings]

I didn't mean to say any specific bit is bad or good, it just sounds like the new horse has had 3-4 bits tried in as many days and (rather to be expected) fussed with each.

I don't feel she has had a chance to get used to hands on any of them and some consistency may help.
How do we feel wearing a new watch or ring? If you keep changing things instead of letting horses become accustomed to them, they may become even fussier about the odd sensations instead of getting down to work.

pretend she knows nothing and find out what she does know. Build from there.

And try to keep up with the Saddlebred! Or they'll think up new and fun things to do with you, themselves!

[BlairASB]

I gotta say... I went through the "fussy mouth, rooting in the bridle, tossing the head and buying every bit in the book" thing with my old mare, and then again helping my friend with her 9 year old green broke, spoiled as heck little half arab.
In both cases, was NOT the bit.... It was a matter of the horse not having a concept of actually YEILDING to the bit.
The fix? work in the bitting harness (with my friend's arab, he spent time in one side rein in his stall bending and circling one direction, then switching after a few minutes. Not really cranked around tight, just enough that he wouldn't want to change directions... ), ground driving in draw lines (not just in a circle, but doodling all over the ring), and finally riding focusing on lots of bending. Smooth snaffle and a running martingale. Circles and serpentines small enough that the horse has to step underneath themselves and really bend. And when the horse gets stiff and resistant, take their head back- push them forward with a deep seat while bending around your leg.
Also, not knowing how she was started, might she be used to more contact and support from her rider? You mention that you ride with a very light hand- My gelding gets "lost" if I try to ride him too light- he's a lot less fussy when I will actually take up contact and give him some guidance. My mare would have been mad if I took that sort of hold on her face...

[sdlbredfan]

Aaack no, not that! I am referring to the message with "Probably the most common work bit for a Saddlebred is the mule bit (or bicycle chain). Seen here: http://www.valleyvet.com/group_images/31743_A.jpg
The smooth or rigid side can be used."
That is one of the most godawful, cruel, abusive bits in the world, especially if you put the jaggedy edge toward the corners of the horses's mouth.

Even if someone were to disagree with my assessment of that bit (due to their own ignorance of course), we have already read from the OP that this is a horse that likes for the human to stay the heck out of her mouth/face, such that she was trying to get more rein pulled through rider's hands even without firm contact. You definitely would not want a more severe bit on a horse like that! Gaaah, I am about to puke just thinking of anyone doing something so ill-advised.
Jeanie

[sdlbredfan]

I absolutely agree with D Baldstockings! ("Since this horse is hoping to become a mount for an advanced beginner eventually, I personally would not be looking through a bag of bits at this point. I would put on a simple snaffle where she is comfortable with it in her mouth and ge to work.").

So many (too many) Saddlebreds have their mouths ruined by ignoramuses who automatically reach for the most severe bit they can find. It absolutely makes steam come out of my ears to see this, and is so counterproductive to do that to a horse, especially a breed as sensitive as the Saddlebred.
Jeanie

[bridlewise]

Here's my 2 cents worth. If she gaits then she evidently has been trained meaning she has had some work. ASB trainers do generally use a mule bit because ASB's are very game horses. I don't necessarily agree with a mule bit. My horse was very hard mouthed due to working him with one. I started him over with a mild solid mouthpiece snaffle to soften his mouth back and leg aids. Hack riding I would use a running martingale. Now, we just trail ride and I use a solid short shank low curb only. I've never seen an ASB trainer use a kimberwick either. I agree start with softest and go from there.

What class is your clients wanting to show the horse? Are they comfortable with a full bridle? I would visit some show barns and talk to ASB trainers in your area. Most are helpful.

[sdlbredfan]

Not necessarily true, there are Saddlebreds who are natural gaited amblers. (referring to Bridlewise's comment "If she gaits then she evidently has been trained ").
Jeanie

[mlinky]

Actually, a mule bit with the smooth side down is not much different from a french link. As always, go with what makes the horse comfortable.

[deerridge]

I can ride anything I've trained with nothing more than Tom Thumb bit. If you train with harsh bits you will get a tough mouth on a horse! Too much bit will lead to bad behavior in my experience anyway. Your bradoon in a full bridal is your real bit, the curb is for head setting in most cases anyway. That's why your bradoon rein is heavy and your curb light.

[attafox]

I can ride anything I've trained with nothing more than Tom Thumb bit. If you train with harsh bits you will get a tough mouth on a horse! Too much bit will lead to bad behavior in my experience anyway. Your bradoon in a full bridal is your real bit, the curb is for head setting in most cases anyway. That's why your bradoon rein is heavy and your curb light.

Unless you've been schooled by an old time master trainer who was a "curb man" and then you learn to ride similarly to the vaqueros - off the curb with a very, very light hand.

And, only if you train with harsh bits with a harsh hand is that the case. The California Bridle horses had/have the harshest bits imaginable, yet a fly can land on the rein and their mouths are so light, they'd know (and respond).

The lesson horses in my barn often go in a hackamore for the beginners until they are ready to graduate to a bit. Keeps the horses a whole lot happier.

[deerridge]

If you have a very light hand a harsh bit works as you say, giving instant touch and feel. The problem is the rider. Most don't have light hand and and over control with the bit, in many cases using the reins to hold themselves in the saddle. Makes my crazy sometimes.

[attafox]

Obviously, I understand that. However, your original statement was "if you train with harsh bits you will get a tough mouth on a horse." I was just pointing out (as you have now agreed) that is not always the case. The OP may very well have very light hands. OTOH, she needs to consider the audience that will be riding this horse - and they probably don't have the sensitivity that she does.

[wstrngrl]

I can ride anything I've trained with nothing more than Tom Thumb bit. If you train with harsh bits you will get a tough mouth on a horse! Too much bit will lead to bad behavior in my experience anyway.

Most people I know would consider a Tom Thumb a harsh bit, and I personally wouldn't use one on any of my horses.

[deerridge]

Really? What do you show western in? A tom thumb is a short shanked snaffle, much milder than a curb, at least according to my mare.

[SmartAlex]

Well, I was going to keep quiet on my opinions of a Tom Thumb but... in my opinion it is a weird little bit. Of course, any bit is only as harsh as the hands it's in. It's a curb, not a snaffle. A snaffle has rings, a curb has shanks. A jointed mouth does not make a bit a snaffle.

When I show western, I generally show in a Billy Allen bit with a slobber bar. I think any jointed mouth curb ought to have a slobber bar to keep them from becoming jaw crackers. The QH my sister grew up on wore a Tom Thumb for all the years we had her. Every time I think back on that, all I see is how that bit crunched down on her jaw. We still have it for nostaglia's sake, but in my adult life....I wouldn't put it on a horse.

[D_BaldStockings]

Ages ago, in my youth, I remember a SB show barn where every one of the curb bits on the show bridles was wrapped in latex except for one horse.
This softened slightly uneven hands or too tight a hold on a sensitive horse. And those horses were very well trained...
many trainers will tell you if you are having mouth problems, go simpler or at least closely examine the horse's palate and tongue and how the bit rests to find that horse's comfortable fit -thicker or thinner mouth, more or less jointing or higher/lower port.

True bosal hackamores are nice training devices, but they do have their limitations: they do nothing to educate a horse's mouth to receiving and interpreting signals via the bit. That comes much later in a vaquero-style trained horse's education and is not to be attempted by beginners -or anyone without a completely independent seat.

After getting the mare going, the OP will need to evaluate the client(s) and work with them and the mare together.
I am just so glad this mare is getting a chance at a new career.

[vlayne]

Well, I was going to keep quiet on my opinions of a Tom Thumb but... in my opinion it is a weird little bit. Of course, any bit is only as harsh as the hands it's in. It's a curb, not a snaffle. A snaffle has rings, a curb has shanks. A jointed mouth does not make a bit a snaffle.

When I show western, I generally show in a Billy Allen bit with a slobber bar. I think any jointed mouth curb ought to have a slobber bar to keep them from becoming jaw crackers. The QH my sister grew up on wore a Tom Thumb for all the years we had her. Every time I think back on that, all I see is how that bit crunched down on her jaw. We still have it for nostaglia's sake, but in my adult life....I wouldn't put it on a horse.

Agree with all points above.
1. Snaffles do not have shanks, ever. Any bit with shanks is a curb, regardless of what's in the mouth.
2. Without a slobber bar, a curb with a broken mouthpiece can be EXTREMELY harsh when you pull back on both reins at once. Pulling back draws the shanks inward towards each other at the bottom, pinching the bars and jaw.

I too would never use a Tom Thumb alone. But hey - everyone has different hands, and horses have different mouths. If deerridge's horses are happy, soft, light, responsive and do their jobs, then he's obviously doing something right!

[D_BaldStockings]

Agree with all points above.
[INDENT]1. Snaffles do not have shanks, ever. Any bit with shanks is a curb, regardless of what's in the mouth.

On the other hand, a curb bit without a curb chain or curb strap is not a curb at all, no matter how long or short the shanks, nor what the mouthpiece is. It becomes a gag in it's action.

I seem to recall finding a study on snaffles with jointed mouths and whether or not there was any appreciable 'nutcracker' effect, which would also apply to a tom thumb western type bit.. I'll try to find it.

In my day Tom Thumb referred to a very short (2 1/2"), loose shank on a pelham or curb bit. The mouthpiece jointed or mullen. So I am trying to catch up to the times and wonder if for western riders Tom Thumbs (jionted mouth curbs) may have longer shanks or not?

[D_BaldStockings]

links to info:

http://cvm.msu.edu/research/research-centers/mcphail-equine-performance-center/publications/usdf-connection/USDF_Dec05.pdf

and the USEF stand on bits:

http://www.usef.org/_staffIframes/pressbox/images/magazine/pdf/11262007095249.pdf

[sdlbredfan]

Great articles, thanks for sharing!
Jeanie

[wstrngrl]

The most common bit I use for western is a Billy Allen, with fixed slobber bar. I actually have two, a fancy bit with Nealia shanks for showing; and a plainer (though still silver engraved because finding Billy Allens with a fixed slobber bar in a plain work bit is like impossible for some reason) shanks for work...

If not a Billy Allen then a low port wrapped with latex.

I also use leather curb straps instead of curb chains, but that's besides the point LOL

D_Bald, this is what I call a Tom Thumb:

http://www.sstack.com/images/us/local/products/family_viewlarger/20370.jpg

And while I'm at it, a Billy Allen, though this shows a chain 'bar' verses a fixed one
http://janetstackshack.com/images/Bit,%20Billy%20Allen.jpg

[deerridge]

I have have used several Billy Allen bits for both show and general riding. Great bit by the way, but I have found the reaction from my horses indicates that they find them to be much harsher than the Tom Thumb bits. Best guess is the longer shank is causeing greater pressure and they are alot heavier too. For me they work best at the steady relaxed speeds of showing while the lighter shorter shanked bits seem to be work better for gaming (poles, barrels, mounted shooting).

[vlayne]

That would make sense, especially if you're neck reining and not direct reining. But again, it's all in the hands and how the horse is trained. It's very possible your horses could do the exact same work just as well in a totally different setup, if they had been trained by someone else. :1eye:

I know fer sure that the way I train horses doesn't work for everyone... I'm a curb bit rider and I train my horses to raise up and flex off the curb. I hardly ever use the snaffle except to lighten and balance a horse around the turn. That doesn't work for every rider.

[deerridge]

Here's one I like alot for training before the full bridle on two year olds. The Argentine Snaffle. Basicly the same as a pelham, with the snaffle mouth piece. Lets you ride off the snaffle rein and get him used to breaking over to the curb shank and chin strap.