Hoping to find my "mystery girl's" identity...

[Underfire05]

Hello Everyone!
I am new to this forum, referred by a very helpful fellow ASB lover from the HGS forums.
I was told you guys are the experts to go to! So here it goes...I recently purchased "Jazzy" down here in FL. She came from AC4H in 2006 and was bought at the New Holland, PA auction around August of 2006. Many people that have seen her think she is full ASB, and I would love to find her identity of at all possible! I even went as far as signing up for an ASHA membership to try and search their databases...

Now to the desription...Jazzy is around 11-13ish and only about 15-15.1 hands tall. I would almost call her a liver chestnut, but when she doesn't have her "fluff" on she is a gorgeous auburn color. She has a star and a slight strip...nothing really solid, but a line of white hairs halfway down her face. No other white markings. Straight, thick legs, very compact body and a mane and tail that grows incredibly long and fast!

She was obviously "trained" for saddleseat at a younger age and can wave her legs like no one's business. She also knows how to rack...but it seems to be more of a nervous habit than something trained perhaps. She is a very nervous horse under saddle. You can just tell someone did something to the poor girl...

In the pictures below she is barefoot. It is not me riding so the please don't comment on the tack or anything else they are attempting to ride her in.

If anyone knows perhaps what I could look for or maybe she looks familiar to anyone?? Even if she's not registered she's still my baby...but it would be nice to find out anything I can.

Also, I was told that there are "Saddlebred Pony" classes where they are not required to be registered...I cannot find a whole lot of specific information on this...so I'm sure you guys would know the answer. Does the normal 14.3 and below measurement apply to be able to show in "Pony" classes?

Also, with the ASHA'a DNA program...would they be able to pinpoint if she is 1/2 ASB? almost liek a parentage check?

Any help is greatly appreciated!!!!

Without any further ado...Here's "Jazzy"

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a258/UnderFire05/Jazzy/Jazzy001.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a258/UnderFire05/Jazzy/9909029.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a258/UnderFire05/Jazzy/jazzy3.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a258/UnderFire05/Jazzy/jazzy5-1.jpg

[D_BaldStockings]

Welcome to the forum!

Lovely mare.

Thank you for bringing her back from the brink.

Her legs are incredibly clean for a horse who was on the road for any time, so I suspect she was sold into the auction circuit just shortly before you got her in '06. Or she has legs of titanium!

She does look SB to me.

How are you two getting along?

[Underfire05]

Thank you :)

I have only had her for 2 months now...I just happened to get the other info from the past owners who had gotten her through AC4H.

Her legs are really clean which is why I wonder maybe she flunked Amish driving school? lol.

I have a picture of her from when AC4H had her and she had the traditional shaved forelock, but she had plates on...not the normal road warrior shoes, and her ears looked "cleaner"...not freshly shaved but she looked as though they had been trimmed before.

We get along pretty well! She has a lot of trust issues obviously under saddle, but she really tries hard to please. She is a doll on the ground and does nothing malicious, etc. now that she's settled in. We've had to learn that fly spray is not evil and also that the mounting block won't eat us either haha.

We have a long way to go but she is really blossoming with the extra loving and attention. :)

I'm just hoping that maybe the people on here that are more familiar with bloodlines,etc will eb abel to help. I showed Morgans for a long time, and some ASB's...but never owned my own and know nothign about the bloodlines sadly...

[jslilley]

I agree that she does look ASB. Without a full-on face shot, the description of face markings that you gave would be star & stripe, not snip - snip is between the nostrils. If they run together it would be star, connected stripe or even faint stripe. It really depends on how accurate her original owner was when she was registered. Being the age range that she is, she would have been blood-typed. ASHA didn't start doing DNA until early 2000ish. There is a chance they could do a blood type and try to compare it to horses on file, but I know they prefer to have at least an idea before doing it. It would be wonderful if the lab would run against all samples, but alas...

Otherwise, I hope you are enjoying her. The only ASB pony classes I know of do still require papers. And yes - they have to be pony height - sounds like your girl is just a smidge too tall. But there are open shows that you could enjoy in the meantime.

Stacie

[Underfire05]

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a258/UnderFire05/Jazzy/jazzy.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a258/UnderFire05/Jazzy/Jazzy138.jpg

Those are some of the only face-on shots that I have. I think I did put down strip...My apologies if I had it wrong. I do know that she doesn't have a snip :)

I figured the pony requirements woul dbe the same as any others but I figured I'd check :)

[roadpony]

The only ASB pony classes I know of do still require papers. And yes - they have to be pony height - sounds like your girl is just a smidge too tall. But there are open shows that you could enjoy in the meantime.

StacieCorrection to Stacie's post... There are classes at many ASB shows for Three-Gaited, Five-Gaited, and English Pleasure ponies. Papers are not required. The USEF rulebook says they should be "saddle type" ponies. I know of several ponies currently showing that are not registered ASBs. One is half-ASB/half-Hackney. Others are full ASB, but don't happen to be registered, at least not in the name they're being shown under.

But yes, they do have to measure 14.2 or under, and they're almost always limited to jr. exhibitor riders, even at non-rated shows.

[jslilley]

Those are some of the only face-on shots that I have. I think I did put down strip...My apologies if I had it wrong. I do know that she doesn't have a snip :)



I figured you knew the difference... ;) I would say star, connected stripe or star connected narrow stripe or star, connected faint stripe. But to search the database - "star, stripe" - you'll get the broadest selection from that. Then you find ones with no white on their feet and start making calls. I'm sure it won't be a short list, but it will be a place to start.

Good luck!

[CHCrystal]

Gosh, she looks a LOT like our Sultan's Santana daughter. Even the coat color you described matches perfectly. And she's *cough* 15hh on a good day :p.

Santana's last crop was '95 though, too old to be your girl. His grandget, and maybe the My Summer Bouquet family would be good places to check. The Concert Master might have had a similiar coat?

I'm at a horse show now, but will check through these if someone doesn't beat me to it.

[3kidsandahorse]

She does have Sultan ears and a Sultan head. Santana's Celebration had a pony card, though he was a bit lighter chestnut. She's beautiful, and seems to be very talented. Even if you never find out who she is, you already know what she is.

[SmartAlex]

If she was wearing regular plates and show barn type clip in the sale barn in Aug 2006, it's possible she went through Tattersalls in July 2006, and just hadn't made it to an Amish buggy when she was picked up by AC4H. Anyone have the Summer 2006 book handy? I may have it at home in the attic.

[3kidsandahorse]

If she was wearing regular plates and show barn type clip in the sale barn in Aug 2006, it's possible she went through Tattersalls in July 2006, and just hadn't made it to an Amish buggy when she was picked up by AC4H. Anyone have the Summer 2006 book handy? I may have it at home in the attic.

I do. I'll check it out after I finish my chores...:glare:

[Underfire05]

Wow! You are guys are quick :) I am really astonished to have even received such a great response already! I had my doubts about her possibly being full ASB due to her height, but it's nice to hear that there were several studs that were smaller too...maybe we have a shot :) I may have to check into that older sire...She still needs her teeth done, so maybet he dentist will end up saying she is older than we first thought? I did try the ASHA search with just a star, then star, strip and pretty much all of the chestnut variations...Came across a few "possibles"...One was already shut down lol...she's still a trail horse. That has been the only person nice enough to write back. I figured beign asked about a New Holland auction incident would rub some people the wrong way anyways :(

Thank you guys so much for all of this! Me and Jazzy really do appreciate it!!!!!!!!! You guys have been great already...what an awesome helpful forum!

[Anke]

Check Admiral's Santana. She looks exactly like a mare I owned (and really still do).......
She too was 'petite' and on a good day would stand 14.2hh.....

[mlinky]

I did a quick look through the Summer 2006 catalogue, didn't find anything certain. I can't find my Spring catalogue.

[SmartAlex]

Check Admiral's Santana. She looks exactly like a mare I owned (and really still do).......
She too was 'petite' and on a good day would stand 14.2hh.....


Oh now I wish I were at home and could view the pictures. I had an Admiral's Santana horse too, and some of them have a very distinct look to them. If she was by AS and bred in Missouri, the stud's owner may be able to ID her. When I get home I'll look at the pictures and see if I see what Anke's seeing.

[Anke]

Oh now I wish I were at home and could view the pictures. I had an Admiral's Santana horse too, and some of them have a very distinct look to them. If she was by AS and bred in Missouri, the stud's owner may be able to ID her. When I get home I'll look at the pictures and see if I see what Anke's seeing.

I did a double take when I saw the picture. If it had not been for the 'no marking on legs' I would have said it was her.......Yet another one of the 4 'lost 'mares. Very talented, but rather game! Her name isTropical Dreams, there are some mares of that age listed, but I am not certain about the markins. Also, Tropical Dreams was a darker liver, but those eyes, shape of face, oh wow. Also need to check the dam of Tropical Dreams.

[Anke]

Thank you :)

I have only had her for 2 months now...I just happened to get the other info from the past owners who had gotten her through AC4H.

Her legs are really clean which is why I wonder maybe she flunked Amish driving school? lol.

I have a picture of her from when AC4H had her and she had the traditional shaved forelock, but she had plates on...not the normal road warrior shoes, and her ears looked "cleaner"...not freshly shaved but she looked as though they had been trimmed before.

We get along pretty well! She has a lot of trust issues obviously under saddle, but she really tries hard to please. She is a doll on the ground and does nothing malicious, etc. now that she's settled in. We've had to learn that fly spray is not evil and also that the mounting block won't eat us either haha.

We have a long way to go but she is really blossoming with the extra loving and attention. :)

I'm just hoping that maybe the people on here that are more familiar with bloodlines,etc will eb abel to help. I showed Morgans for a long time, and some ASB's...but never owned my own and know nothign about the bloodlines sadly...

If she is kin to the horse I am thinking about, 'flunkin' out of drivingschool' does not surprise me at all.............

[Underfire05]

Wow! You guys are amazing! I did check on the Tropical Dreams mare's dam...but all of her other offspring are much younger than she would be. I tried to look through most of the suggested studs also, found 1 or 2 "maybe's"...I am also looking for one's that simply list a star...her strip is very faint...litterally just a sprinking of hairs...perhaps they showed up later in life and weren't listed on her papers beforehand?

She doesn't mind being long-lined and you can tell she's worn a full bridle and had all of the "show stuff" done to her...I'm surprised someone would let her go. Fun fun mare :) A little quirky and she takes a bit to trust you...but we have a great bond now. I love it!

You guys are great and I am so glad that you guys are so willing to help...it makes me feel great.

[virtualasb]

Have not had time to reply but I emailed these pictures to a friend and I do think this is Coachabella that I raised and sold as a two year old. She is by Hayden Fox and out of Lucky Guess. She should have been blood typed. Sorry for being slow.

Wendy

[virtualasb]

I looked her up and I forgot that she had had a baby so she was DNA typed in 2002. Should be able to positively ID her. She looks a lot like her grandsire Chemistry who was a cocky little horse with a big heart and is still going strong.

I also heard good things about her baby by Spanish Dancer. Also I might add that there should be no shame in horses popping up at New Holland. After you sell one it is out of your control. Would I have taken her back if I knew that was her fate. You Bet!!

Wendy

[SmartAlex]

Wow, if she is the horse Wendy says she is, then Case Closed!

I don't see too much that would lead me to believe she was an Admiral's Santana baby. I wouldn't rule it out completely, but she isn't stamped too strongly with his traits.

[Underfire05]

Coachabella was on the list that I had as my "possibles"...but today i got a one sentence response from the current owners simply stating that they still have her.

I would not rule her out though...not trying to sound rude, but I think some people may just say things to make sure no one looks into them...?

Does anyone have any pictures of Coachabella? I was also looking into "Tie A York" but her owners on file are not current members so I haven't been able to get any updated information.

You guys had me all hopeful lol!

[amwrider]

Just chiming in here, Christina purchased Jazzy from customers of mine and they just did not get along. My niece (who lately prefers to ride hunt seat) ended up riding her mostly.

I have a nice headshot of her also that shows her markings more clearly.

The stripe below her star is very, very faint and I suspect may even have been missed if registered as a foal so she may just be papered as a chestnut with an irregular star. Christina, I think she may also have two tiny ermine spots on her right hind I think.

I had also gone through the Summer 06 Tattersalls book and had hit upon a horse named Mandolin Star who was put through the sale by Bobby Morrison. I did speak to Mr. Morrison last year and he said no match.

I too have spent countless hours trying to find her identity and would love to help Christina ID her.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc12/arbordale_photos/JAZZY%201999%20Saddlebred/1000620_152.jpg

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc12/arbordale_photos/JAZZY%201999%20Saddlebred/jazzy2.jpg

Just for kicks, enjoy this one
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc12/arbordale_photos/JAZZY%201999%20Saddlebred/0811082.jpg

[Underfire05]

Andrea!! :)

Thank you for those facial shots! I hope they help :)

Eveyone, I found a picture of Coachabella but it was from her as a 2yr old and you can't see the markings too clearly.

Would anyone happen to know where else I might be able to find pictures of her? She has noshow receords, and one baby...but that's it.

[vlayne]

One thing I've noticed with foal's facial markings is many times they SHRINK. So it's possible she's registered as having a blaze or stripe... just a thought.

Good luck!

[rhettdgn]

When I was looking at her facial markings I immediately thought...elongated star. I did look up a few and have some spossibles, but when I checked again to post yesterday, I figured the mystery was solved with the Coachabella connection. I will foward the names/reg numbers maybe one of them is her.

Let us know how it goes and where it leads....

[Underfire05]

Hello all!!!! Great news *hopefully*! I talked to an older lady in IL a few days ago about one of the mares rhettdgn had PM'd me about...well she lives in the boonies (lol) and didn't have internet service or e-mail so I had to UPS her some pictures of my mare...and she is 99.99% POSITIVE that it is her old mare.

She was the only recorded owner other than her breeder, she said she got the horse as a dying weanling out of a hospital, and then gave her away to a friend of her's as a coming 3 yr old...after her friend had her for a while she gave her away to a "troubled" 4H kid...and then the horse "disappeared"...

She was so extatic when she saw the pictures that i had sent her.

THe best part...she called me back earlier in the morning after I had first talked to her to tell me that she had found the mare's ORIGINAL REGISTRATION PAPERS! wooo! lol :)

This means that i save $ since i won't have to apply for lost papers if it is her!

I told her not to send the papers ye! haha.

I will be calling the ASHA tomorrow morning to see the procedure for DNA verification, etc to make sure that it is this mare.

Holy COw i am super excited!!!! Wish me luck! Lets hope it is her :) I will update you all the nanosecond i find out!

[Fanfare]

Sweet! What is the name?

[rhettdgn]

That is such great news!! She's a very pretty mare. Keep me updated so there is absolutely no doubt that this is her!!!

I am so happy to open this this morning and now I'll be smiling for the rest of the day...Love to get good news!!!

[Underfire05]

The name of the mare aht we *hope* is her is "Jewels-A-Poppin". She is out of the Stallion "Family Jewels" and the mare "Lorries Sensational Girl"...CH Wing Commander is on both sides...but since I am not too familiar with bloodlines that's about all that stood ou :D lol.

Anyone care to enlighten me on the rest of her lineage? I can post some of the other names if you need me to.

Thank you again for all of your amazing help with this...and believe me I will update as soon as we know for sure!!!

*stupid question*...i know i have to request a dna kit from the asha...can i put a note in there saying it's trying to find a match to a registered horse? i know that's why they do the "exact" match...but i didn't know if i had to put names or anything on there or not?

[lcunningham]

When I sent for my DNA kit, I told them in my email/phone conversation who I thought the match was and they had the correct "reference sample to" name already on the paperwork. I just needed to get the blood drawn, and I think sign the form.
Jennifer and Katriona were both great to deal with, even though it took longer than normal for me to get my results - they were lost when the lab moved, but luckily I did end up with a successful match!
Good luck, I hope it's her! It's such a cool feeling to find out who they are and even cooler to see the papers with your name on them! :) I still get misty when I think about it.

[jslilley]

Since she was blood typed originally, when you call, ask them how they want you to proceed. I imagine they will want blood and then you can have it converted to DNA.

This is such great news! Family Jewels has sired some really nice children (think World's Champions). Very athletic and game. Many are gaited. Enjoy!!!!!

[3mares]

Just wondering if you found your horse's identity?!

[Underfire05]

As of now I am still waiting for my DNA kit to arrive. Katrina said it is being shipped out today. I can hardly wait! How long is the average wait for the test? I also decided to pay the extra money to run the database search in case the other mare is not a match, that way I get both done at once :)

Does it take weeks? Days? Figured I'd ask the experts :)

Thank you for everyone's good luck wishes!! I will definitely let you gusy know as soon as i hear back!!!

[CHCrystal]

It usually takes a couple weeks or so when registering. Not sure for identity searches...

How exciting! Crossing my fingers for a quick match :).

[Cynthia]

To answer an earlier question that you had as well, oftentimes there are also "Open English Pleasure" classes at saddlebred shows in which the horses are not required to be saddlebreds. If your mare's height is a bit too tall for the pony division, you could always consider that division until you solve the mystery of who she is.

[Underfire05]

Thank you Cynthia :) That is what I was pretty much plannign to do with her anyways since i didn't think she was registered at firs. But that won't eb happening anytime soon lol. She's still quite nervous under saddle, making great improvements but a long way to go. One tof theses days we'll go give the show scene a shot :)

[Fanfare]

Okay, I have to bring this back up. Has there been any conclusion to this mystery?

[Underfire05]

There was no exact DNA match in the system, but they found a possible dam. they were converting her DNA to bloodtype to run more test. Sadly, I had to give my girl up due to some serious personal health issues. But no...the mystery was not yet solved.

[Saddlebredriver]

If you don't mind me asking, you said you had to give her up, where did she go?