Rider can't pick up left diagonal

[wstrngrl]

Does anyone have any suggestions for a rider who can not seem to pick up the left diagonal, or switch diagonals for that matter?

We have a girl in the barn who's helping us out a bit by working Clifford (just walk and trot to get him moving). I was watching her ride today and noticed she was on the wrong diagonal going the second way (so on the right diagonal when she should have been on the left)...

I figured she just didn't realize it, so told her to change diagonals. A simple thing, I thought :blink:

Try as she might, she never got it correct. It's like she can't count one beat :boat:

And she's not young either, she's in high school. And has been riding for a few years :confused1:

And her mom said that it's always been a problem, no matter what the instructors did, she has always had a problem picking up the left diagonal.

I am at a total loss as to what to do, have no clue....

Suggestions please!

[ASB_EQ_Gal]

Hmm I thought I new the answer to this (just have her work the second direction more) until I read more into your post. This is a hard one. Can she not pick it up at all or does it take her a couple of bounces?

[wstrngrl]

At. all.

I worked with her for probably 10 minutes, couldn't get her to pick it up for a single stride.

LOL, and Clifford was probably thinking What the.... too much work!! I don't know how long she was on him before I got there; but he definitely worked alittle harder than he has been :oops:

I wanted to work on it some more, but Clifford was wore out...

[3kidsandahorse]

This sounds like my daughter with her shoes years ago:

She always put them on the wrong feet. Always. I figured out if it was truly that she didn't know her feet, she would put them on correctly 50% of the time. So obviously she knew what she was doing!

If this girl never picks up the left diagonal, it might be something either that she doesn't know her diagonals, or a balance or muscle weakness issue.

Some horses like us to post certain diagonals (not necessarily the "correct" ones) and perhaps she's the same way for some reason?

[Samigator]

can she pick it up on any other horse? I guess I would try having her jog very slowly on a straight away and work on sitting the trot first. Have her close her eyes to get the rhythm of the trot until she is feeling it very squarely- 1-2-1-2. Then you can count, "up, up, up" for her (with her eyes closed) and have her just feel the rhythm and think about going up with your voice. If she is going slowly enough and is feeling the trot squarely and evenly, I can't think of any reason she shouldn't be able to come up on that diagonal unless either her or the horse has some physical problem that makes them not move evenly. If she needs to, have her drop the reins and work on a lunge line, hold his mane to get up, etc. Very strange problem.

[D_BaldStockings]

Hmmm...

What happens if you ask her to close her eyes and sit the trot, then post? then sit, then post, keeping her eyes closed?

she needs to learn to feel her body and what it is doing.
Just tell her YES, very good. Or sit, please; try again.

She'll have to do it occasionally by accident.
If she learns to feel there is a difference, I think she can pick it up.
Since it is unusual for someone to Always be on one diagonal, I think she can subconciously feel it and it is 'comfortable' to her so she automatically switches back there.

It will take awhile.

[callmeblu]

Put a single chain on the leg you want her to rise with. Have her post off the sound rather than feel until she gets the hang of it.

[5Gatd]

Try starting from scratch.....lead her at the walk and have her watch the left shoulder and post the left diagonal like that before moving on to the trot. Once she can post the left diagnoal at the walk, then work on the trot. Worked for the kids I've helped.

[mskyar]

My only suggestion would be to try and have her change while standing rather than sit a step...It worked once for me with someone who had a hard time changing...You could have stand and then tell her when to sit and post.......I remember one BNT that always posted on the same diagonal, or at least he used to...always amazed me...

[janders]

I had a really hard time learning to change diagonals when I was a kid. The instructor was no doubt very frustrated, but so was I!!! She would tell me to sit a stride, bounce once, whatever--she kept changing the wording, but nothing clicked. (No, I'm really not learning-challenged!!) Anyway, what we finally realized was that she needed to tell me to bounce twice--because that's actually what it feels like if you stop and think. The first 'bounce' is your regular posting, and the second is when you are actually changing your diagonal, if that makes any sense at all. It does feel like you are bouncing twice. Try that with you rider and see if it helps.

[Thunderstruck]

My only suggestion would be to try and have her change while standing rather than sit a step...It worked once for me with someone who had a hard time changing...You could have stand and then tell her when to sit and post.......I remember one BNT that always posted on the same diagonal, or at least he used to...always amazed me...

I always post the right diagonal at least on Dylan. It is nearly impossible to post the left diagonal the second way on him...he just doesn't like it and he won't trot square until I change if I happen to come up on the left on the reverse. I don't even check it...he just throws me up on the one he likes most of the time.

[wstrngrl]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone!

To answer some questions/clarify.

Yes, she has the same problem on other horses

Clifford's trot isn't very balanced, and having her post on the wrong diagonal the second way makes him REALLY unbalanced, and it's hard for him to trot. So you'd think that picking up the correct diagonal would be easier, since it's the easier one to post to that way.

I did actually have her try changing by standing instead of sitting, it didn't work either.

She never sat just one bounce, she'd always sit like a bunch of bounces, like 3-4 strides, before picking a post up again...

I do think it has alot to do with condition and balance (of the rider); she's not in very good shape, has very poor posture on a horse, and posts sloppy.

I will try some of the suggestions, though I would prefer to not have to spend that much time teaching her to post correctly. After-all the point of having her work the horse is to save us time. If I have to spend alot of time teaching her to do something basic (and very necessary for this horse) I'd be better off just spending the time working the horse myself! Especially considering the only day I'm around when she rides is Tuesdays.

[vlayne]

I would have her ride the trot sitting, and practice the UP beat on command.

Before she gets on, have her stand in kind of a squatting position as if she were riding. Have her say "one two one two one two" as if it were a trot. Practice standing up on cue, varying it from one or two.

Repeat on the horse, using a sitting trot. Have her sit twenty strides or so, counting one-two-one-two. You tell her, on ONE start posting. Post a ways, then sit again and repeat. Change it up from one or two.

[3mares]

I agree with janders-it took me awhile to get my diagonals and it did help to realize that the bounce once actually meant twice. Plus, I would think I needed to be going up when the shoulder was forward but that was too late, I needed to be going up as soon as the shoulder started to move. Are you having her watch the shoulder to see where it should be when she should be up? That was something nobody ever actually told me but after hearing bounce once so many times I figured it all out. Sorry if this doesn't make sense, it makes sense to me as I picture myself struggling with this as a kid.

[rider]

Here are a couple more ideas. When asking her or new riders to change, I tell them to think "up-down-up-down-down-up" (here is where it's actually sit two beats instead of saying "sit one") They can practice first at a walk. Do a lunge lesson or have her ride a trusty school horse and practice sitting trot for 5 steps, posting trot for 5 steps, jockey position for 5 steps repeat (or any combination) Once she gets a good, consistent pattern going, I find it hard to believe that she would continually end up on the right diagonal. This will also help smooth our her otherwise sloppy posting.

[wstrngrl]

Here are a couple more ideas. When asking her or new riders to change, I tell them to think "up-down-up-down-down-up" (here is where it's actually sit two beats instead of saying "sit one") They can practice first at a walk. Do a lunge lesson or have her ride a trusty school horse and practice sitting trot for 5 steps, posting trot for 5 steps, jockey position for 5 steps repeat (or any combination) Once she gets a good, consistent pattern going, I find it hard to believe that she would continually end up on the right diagonal. This will also help smooth our her otherwise sloppy posting.

Thanks rider, I actually already tried the "up, down, up, down, down, up" thing... She can't seem to only come down for one "extra" beat. She sits for a few strides then comes back up.

We don't have any lesson horses. And none of our horses would be good for lunge lessons, unless she really wants to go for a wild ride LOL!

[evforever]

I've had quite a few little camp kids that just CAN'T get the idea of posting. When we both finally get tired of hoping they will just get it- I literally take matters into my own hands lol. I hook a finger into their belt loop and run beside the horse while trotting. I literally pull up or hold down when they're supposed to be standing up or sitting down. I have one 4 yr old that thought that was such fun that she does it to herself! (quite a comical picture!) It's never failed to work- maybe this would work for you?

[ernieb]

Sounds like every one is frustrated. Try some ground excercises.. Have her do some steps up and down starting with left leg, then right leg. Do a bunch of reps with each leg. add arm excercises, some up & down at the shoulder, then have her say out loud, "up / down / up / down " over & over a million times as she does the step thing. You say she is not in the best shape, so maybe these would help. Also do some squats up & down against a wall, making sure to bend at the knee, count the Up / down & reps again. Sounds like she has no rhythm, either. Some people just don't have it. She can do these in her home & not be embarassed at the barn. Then put her on the horse, do the same thing, go the second way first. maybe she only feels the one leg raise & fall, and if she uses her left leg she might just pick up on it. I also know the lunge line lessons work wonders in diagonal work. Also try figure 8's to assist in sitting a bounce. Anything is worth a try.

[walkinghorseowner]

Ok it has been years actually decades since I rode a trot, and even longer since I learned...but the experience has been burned into my memory. Took forever it seemed to "get it". I was trying to do the work instead of letting the horse do the work. Try putting her on a horse with a real primpy walk, and let the horse bounce her out of the saddle a little, add some music with a good beat, and teach her to count beats...slow at first (it's her sense of rhythm that's off, she probably doesn't dance in time to the music either). Another trick is have her do squats in time to music, off the horse...she will develop those muscles and timing.

[kmmed1]

Try giving your rider a visual reference for the diagonal. Put a bright yellow post it note on the the left shouilder of the horse. It'll stay stuck long enough, and if if doesn't, use colored duct tape.
Ask her to remember the mantra I was taught, to "rise and fall with the leg to the wall".
It will help pick up that diagonal.

[sddlbrdluver09]

Really, for one I always tell my kids to sit two and was stunned when I ran into a student who couldn't get that idea and had to "sit one". Two: if she can't sit twon have her sit 4 or 6, any even number (counting the first bounce) should bring her up on the opposite diagonal.

I see no reason for a person to only take one diagonal on the straight away, therfore I would work her on the straight away where it won't affect the horse if she's on the wrong diag. And this should help her come up on the correct one at least part of the time.

All else fails, or u don't have a straight away, have her sit the first three beats of the trot, puts them on the correct diag. at least 75 percent of the time.

[CMRChamberlin]

I actually tend to have this problem really frequently unless I "maintain" myself and make sure that I am even. Although plausible that she just doesnt understand her diagonals Id try something different. When shes standing there, off the horse, ask her to stand on her right leg and lift her left leg up in the air; then ask her to switch to stand on left leg and lift her right leg. I'd be willing to bet she has a much harder time hoding her balance while standing on her right leg. What Im getting at is that her right hip is likely much weaker than her left hip, causing her to always take the right diagonal. That balance exercise will tell you whether or not its a physical issue or just an issue with figuring out her diagonals. I was in a serious car accident and after all of my injuries I developed some major compensation patterns. Luckily a client at our barn is a really capable massage therapist and shes helped me with these issues. PM if you have any more questions.

[Ruby1]

Some really good suggestions so far....the old saying of "rise & fall with the leg on the wall" also works well too.My suggestion for changing diaginals would be...if she can sit a few strides or even a couple strides....have her post (don't worry about diaginals) and while posting ask her to sit 2 or 3 strides if she can.So have her post around the arena,then give her a heads up and let her know your going to want her to try and sit for 2 or 3 strides....follow her posting saying out loud with her "up,down,up,down"....... then ask her to sit if she can,then let her go back to regular posting.Keep working the exercise as it will take many times to do...the goal is to get her to sit for 2 strides then back to posting...sit 2 strides,then back to posting...saying to her when she sits bounce,bounce UP! Dont know if it"ll work,but you can give it a shot.Maybe some more sitting trot would help too.

[Cynthia]

Or, you can just have her sit the trot all of the time. It will improve her seat and throw the horse off of HIS trot the least. I agree with several people in that this sounds like a physical issue for the rider, in that one side of her body is much stronger or weaker, and/or she has one very dominant side. Its kind of like some right-handed people can write reasonably well with their left hands, and some are practically unable to even hold a pen with theirs. Its probably difficult and maybe even uncomfortable for her to post the other diagonal, which is why she can't seem to get it. If she WANTS to get it, then try to work with her, otherwise perhaps a sitting trot will allow her to ride the horse well enough to get what you need out of the situation. :) I recommend yoga for her as well. Its a good way to gently strengthen and stretch both sides of the body.

[Celtic Hill]

I was alwasy taught to sit 3 strides then post, i never liked it and it never worked for me but it might for her, just a thought!

[Sit]

I guess I would teach her to sit gently for a whole rail and let her learn to do that and then have her count some odd number, whether it is 1, 3, 5, 7 or whatever. Then, I would watch closely as to how she does on the left side to try to see if it is a physical problem.

I know you probably don't want your horses ridden on the same diagonal, but I would let her work on her seat, and comfort and easy posting before I tried to work on diagonals. They're useful, of course, but don't matter as much as deep seat, balance, and good hands. If she masters those pretty good, she'll probably learn diagonals quickly.

I almost always (95% or more of the time) come up on the left diagonal. My left leg is about a half inch shorter than my right and therefore, my right shoulder drops about that much as well. I've always wondered if that was the reason or if it is just something I subconsciously do. I was showing in adult eq once and, when they called for the line up, I didn't bother to check because I knew for sure I would be on the left side (and thought it would be cool to not check), but when I checked as I got to the line up, I was on the right side! Fortunately, the judge wasn't looking, but what a time for my trusty left side diagonal to abandon me!