New Hackney Pinto Horse !!

[Highstep]

Took a few years to find him ( ok 5 years of looking high and low), but I picked up a little Hackney Pinto Horse last month!

http://www.erosarabhacks.com/sales/purebred-pinto-hackney-colt/

Top notch place!!

[CHCrystal]

Very curious! So... because I had been unaware of pinto in the hackney horse AND I couldn't figure out which pattern your boy fit into, I started looking at his family tree and the farms other "pinto" mare...

"Pinto" in the hackney is slightly exagerated sabino at work, correct? 'Cause his daddie only has high white legs, and HIS parents (both) also show no real pinto pattern, besides high socks.

Any pinto pattern genetic experts out there that would like to take a crack at this? Just for curiousity's sake on my part :). Love the color mysteries we are presented with. a boarder here has a "pinto" shire/tb cross mare that I would guess is just the sabino being expressed more dramatically.

Very cute hackney! Congratulations! I LOVE that area of WA :)

[Highstep]

His Sire does have a very large belly spot, and so does his Dam. There is lots of color in there back grounds, just not everyone will tell you its there... He also has a part blue eye.

Tobiano: The most common type of pinto. A spotting pattern characterized by rounded markings with white legs and white across the back between the withers and the dock of the tail, usually arranged in a roughly vertical pattern and more white than dark, though the ideal is a 50-50 distribution, with the head usually dark and with markings like that of a normal horse. i.e. star, snip, strip, or blaze. Tobiano is a simple dominant trait caused by a single gene. All tobiano horses have at least one tobiano parent.[2] A DNA test exists for tobiano. Tobiano is not associated with any health concerns.
Overo: A collective term meaning "Pinto, but not tobiano." These patterns are characterized by irregular markings with a horizontal orientation. The white rarely crosses the back, and the lower legs are normally dark. While all currently-identified overo patterns are dominant traits, overo foals (called "cropouts") are occasionally produced from two apparently solid-colored parents. The term "overo" is most closely associated with the frame pinto pattern.

Take your pick for my kid. He has white across his back, and irregular markings with a horizontal orientation, so would that make him a Overtobi?:)

[D_BaldStockings]

Thre is genetic testing for most of the spotting patterns, at least you could rule out ones that are not there.

I'm sure the colt is at least Sabino, as that is really the most common complex of color genes in the general population of horses where pinto was discriminated against.

If he is not cross registered pinto, you may want to register him if you plan to use him at stud.

[smurphy0806]

Take your pick for my kid. He has white across his back, and irregular markings with a horizontal orientation, so would that make him a Overtobi?:)

Actaully what your thinking of is a Tovero. It is a horse that came from a Tobiano parent and an Overo parent. Attached are some picture of a Tovero. It is usually characterized by a bald face, and irregular spots.



Just an FYI, Overo's should NEVER breed to another Overo because they can form a "Lethal White Overo." Its a genetic disease that ALWAYS occurs when two overo's breed and they both pass on their Overo gene to the baby. The baby will die within 72 hours. That is why you will never see a "Homozygous Overo."

[smurphy0806]

My guess is you have a Sabino.

There is another Pinto marking called Splash.

Splash literally looks like they were dipped in white paint. The white has smooth edges, and it usually stops at one point. For example, high white on the legs is usually Splash. Also Belly spots are usually splash.

A horse can be homozygous Splash.

http://www.morgancolors.com/splashwhite.htm

Attached is a picture of a Purebred Arabian, Tested Sabino Mare.

Info below on Sabino

"It is often characterized by four white feet and legs where the stockings often extend up the legs in ragged formation; belly patches that extend to the body; a wide blaze; and body roaning. When the sabino pattern is minimally expressed, the horse usually has four white socks and a blaze, you can tell they are not the usual white marks because of the ragged edge or narrow and long extension up the leg. Some sabinos will also have odd white patches on the knee or hock, removed from the main portion of the sock or stocking. A few sabinos do have a dark foot or two, although most have four white feet. Minimally marked sabinos are easily confused with truly nonspotted horses.

When the sabino pattern is in the middle range of expression, they are fairly distinctive and are usually difficult to confuse with other patterns. Most have white extending from the belly and have roan and flecked areas in addition to white areas. Some will be nearly entirely roan without white patches. These could be confused with the true roan horses, although the facial and leg white usually gives these away and they do not have dark heads typical of true roans.

The next stage of expression is patched but not roaned. These can be confused with frame overos especially if they have at least one dark foot. Most patched sabinos have smaller, more ragged patches than typical frame overos.

The whitest of sabinos are almost all white and may retain color only on the ears while others are all white. Most sabinos that are largely white are very speckled and roaned and can be confused with Appaloosas.

The sabino has not been associated with the lethal white foals that frame overos can have."

[Highstep]

Thre is genetic testing for most of the spotting patterns, at least you could rule out ones that are not there.

I'm sure the colt is at least Sabino, as that is really the most common complex of color genes in the general population of horses where pinto was discriminated against.

If he is not cross registered pinto, you may want to register him if you plan to use him at stud.

He will be registered Pinto very soon. But I dont plan on keeping him a Stud.

[jslilley]

Either way, how cute is that! Congrats!

[Paddy's Girl]

Just an FYI, Overo's should NEVER breed to another Overo because they can form a "Lethal White Overo." Its a genetic disease that ALWAYS occurs when two overo's breed and they both pass on their Overo gene to the baby. The baby will die within 72 hours. That is why you will never see a "Homozygous Overo."

Before genetic testing, I'd agree but nowadays...

Lethal white is a specific gene, but not all overo's have it. A simple hair genetic test will give you the answer. As long as both parents or at least one (since it takes two copies to get a Lethal)is LWO free then you won't get a lethal white.

So as long as a breeder does their homework and has a simple 25-75 buck testing done, a LWO foal should never occur even in breeding Overo to Overo.

One of the many great things to come out of the genetics labs!!

[ihfarm]

Hi! I agree with the testing for LWO to avoid the LWO genetic. (Lab testing is great and getting to be very affordable)

Just my two cents:

Overo consits of three different genetics --- sabino (sabiano??/sp??), splashed white, and framed overo. To my knowledge the framed overo is the one that carries LWO genetic.

You can breed an Overo to Overo as long as they have been cleared for LWO.

I once had a pinto pony who had three different pinto gentics --- sabino (sabiano??)/splashed white/tobiano.

Have a great day!
Rebecca

[Lily]

CUTE CUTE CUTE :thumbup1: I have always loved the Hackney Horse, so glad they seem to becoming popular, although I am not sure the timing is right w/the economy but he is a LOOKER:001_tt1:

[Rudy]

I admit I really don't like the term 'overo' since it can be misleading.

ALL living frame pattern horses have one copy of LWO. This is the one that the white is on the sides of the horses but usually will not cross the back. LWO is something that can be found in minimal form so it can be confusing and people may think other patterns carry LWO when it is only a horse who is frame who is. A frame horse can carry other patterns though.

http://www.hallmarkfarm.com.au/images/lg_stallion1.jpg

Take away frame and some of the 'other' overo genes are sabino, splash, rabicano, and dominant white. None by itself will ever have LWO or carry LWO.

Your boy is cute. The blue eyes are a 'splash' indicator...neither sabino or frame causes it. In fact, sabino doesn't like to be 'through' the eyes. I also see sabino on him as well.

I'm not sure about him having tobiano or frame. I'm not sure how hackney breeding goes but if he is 100% European bred (meaning no 'add in' blood in the US then he cannot be frame since it is not naturally found in Europe.) Tobi on the other hand, while it can be minimal, it usually will show up at some point.

I'd test him for tobi...otherwise congrats on your loud sabino/splash colt!!

[willowood stables]

WOW now that is a pinto LOL! Interesting to note that the sabino is also shown thru roaning..this is a picture of my current road pony..both of his sides starting at the flank and moving almost up to his shoulders are so roan he almost white..but no other markings as in high whites and he has no white on his face!!! You can see it a little in his flanks in this picture, but every year he gets more and more! Hubby thinks his is going to turn grey LOL

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v211/willowoodstables/027-025-09SYR.jpg

I think it is almost worthwhile to do color testing just to figure out what patterns they carry! Looking at the pinto colts bloodlines Hartzett Paddy was a sabino/splash pinto IMHO (he had many many colts up here and he also showed and he had mucho white!) so this could be where the coloring is coming from.

Kim

[Highstep]

Thanks Kim, but we are going to geld him next month. I have no Biz plaing with a studd horse. Took a long time to find a Hackeny Horse with some chrome.

[Highstep]

Well the little bugger made it to his first B-day. He cut him self up a few times but everything is well now. He took first place in a local schooling show. Nothing to brag about but it was still a good time !!

[Highstep]

Well we are getting ready for our first Pinto Show for the year, Its in Or. for the Pinto Futuritys.

He is not to bad looking for a yearling.