appys saddleseat?

[Celtic Hill]

i was suprised when i googled appys saddleseat it came up with alot of appys going saddleseat. i found this interesting. is this popular in the appy world?

[Celtic Hill]

okay, thanks. when i was first learning saddleseat i schooled on a quarter horse, and my TB, but i would never show them. The only reason why i schooled on them was to make sure i had a secure seat before i moved to our saddlebred at the barn.

[Paddy's Girl]

The appy's actually have a saddleseat division at shows. Just a class or two but it is recognized by the breed. Since appy's allow arabians (or did in the 90's) every once in a while you'll get a better stepper. Nothing like you'll see in the true saddleseat breeds though.

[ihfarm]

Hi! Saddleseat is an actual division of Appaloosa. We have an Appaloosa in my area that shows Saddleseat. She came and asked Saddlebred people for help in finding clothes, tack, and some helpful show hints. We don't mind them being in our class, he is very well-mannered. His head is up and set. This particular Appy has some motion and is cute little mover.

Appaloosa can be of Quarter Horse, Thoroughbred, or Arabian breeding to be registered as long as they have spots.

A long time ago Saddleseat was a division for Quarter Horse. Personally, I have met a few Quarter Horses that would be good at Saddle Seat --- only because they had too much motion for a quarter horse.

In general, it would help saddle seat, if it was more accepted or a division of more breeds.

However, in my area a lot of classes are divided light and stock type for open shows --- we have a horse that is basically a solid colored paint (we suspect registered paint) that they enter in light type, because he is thoroughbred x paint cross. Last time I checked the
thoroughbred is an acceptable cross for paint and quarter horses (reg). Anyway, they try to enter the light horse division, because of the lower numbers to get a ribbon. At the last open show, the judge would not place them in the class. He placed the Arab instead last. Please note the Arab made mistakes (missed his lead and not a good headset). I also know it is a new show team (girl and Arab). Their ride at this show was better than the last show.

Have a great day!

p.s. However, my favorite horse to see going Saddle Seat is an ASB.
Rebecca

[Jackandmo]

Several years ago, my husband took lessons at a central CA barn and rode saddleseat on an Appy. It was the first time I'd seen that, but apparently, it's pretty common.

Last year, I showed my QH - a retired cutting and team penning horse - saddleseat. I was just there goofing off at the show. I think I wore jeans and had a big fuzzy headband on. I came in first in an open show. I placed AHEAD of a girl decked out in her hunter garb on a nice little hunt horse. Yeah, that caused quite the commotion!

[Happy Dogue]

For years I showd a 14.3-15 hand app gelding of unknown breeding. He was picked up at a sale as an 6 week old orphan.

If you saw the way he carried his head and neck you'd think his was half saddlebred. Not only did I do extreemly well on the app circut showing saddleseat, I showed him at some AHSA shows and beat the saddle horses.

I will agree that most apps these days are bred for the long low hunter frame, but now and again you run into individuals that don't fit the mold.

[attafox]

Saddlebreds and Busses -

The Palomino horse is a color, however there is a registry (just like the Pinto registry) for them that also focuses on maintaining the individual breed integrity.

The golden color on a horse is ancient. Perhaps the one who loved it the most, and was truly responsible for the development of a breed was Queen Isabella of Spain. The word "Palomino" is a Spanish surname. Many feel that Palomino is only a color and not a breed, which is true that the color of Palomino comes in all breeds, but the Palomino of Spanish times the Golden Dorado, was as close to being a breed as any strain of horse. The Dorado was of Arabic-Moorish-Spanish blood and breeding, closely akin to the Arabian and the Moorish Barb. The Palomino of Spanish times was not bred by being crossed with sorrels. The Spanish had many shades of golden horses, and when they did use "Corral Breeding" a light color Palomino mare would be mated with a very dark-colored Palomino stallion. This point has been noted in an old book and printed in Barcelona in 1774.

These horses came to California and formed the basis of the golden color that we see today. The early owners of ranchos in California refined Isabella's breeding further and created a horse that was somewhat parallel to the ASB, but without the gaits and with color on the left coast - at the same time the ASB was being developed on the east coast.

Anyway, enough trivia.

And back on topic, I have seen a few apps that do saddle seat (and that's two words, BTW) quite well. Of course, those are the old time apps with Baroque build as came from the Nez Pierce, and not the more modern apps that have far more of a QH influence.

[mlinky]

I never knew this. Funny story, one of my first eBay purchases was a 21" Crump cutback saddle from a seller in Nevada who had bought an Appy, and "it came with this saddle."

[vlayne]

Wow. Just, wow. Saddlebreds and Buses, your breed bashing and insulting comments makes me very embarrassed to be a member of this forum. It's bad enough when people do it TO us. Why do we have to do it back?

If you cannot find something to like in what you see, and cannot find something, ANYTHING nice to say, keep your mouth closed and your fingers off your keyboard.

Just because YOU don't care for it, find it attractive or interesting does NOT give you the right to publicly ridicule it. The people who show in those classes with those breeds work just as hard to get in the ring, love their horses just as much and enjoy Saddle Seat.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

And - why would you warm up in stretchies at a local open show? I've shown at a LOT of little open shows and I always try to minimize the negativity surrounding our breed. No stretchies, chains, tailsets, tongue ties, ginger, etc. Those are things most people find awful to see, whether they actually are awful or not, and should be left at home or kept at breed shows. Laughing at people's reactions is not appropriate. Taking steps to be sure you present the Saddlebred in the best possible light IS appropriate.

[amwrider]

I have seen some of the Appy saddle seat videos on youtube and I am embarassed by some of the comments made by ASB, Morgan and Arabian people. They are very snobbish comments and are hurtful. If they want to enjoy their Appy horses saddle seat, no harm done.

[wilkinak]

Having seen what passes for saddleseat in my area, I understand the less charitiable comments completely. I haven't seen Apps shown Saddleseat, but there was a POA in one barn that I would have loved to have seen in a full bridle; she broke about level and was a little hot.

Some of the saddleseat classes in my area do not require the basics - full or pelham bridle, or even a snaffle w/martingale; cut back saddle; or a saddlesuit. The kids ride the same strung out ponies, in the same hunt seat equipment, in the the saddle seat class as the hunter class. To call it "saddleseat" is ridiculous. When I grumbled a comment about how sad the class was, someone replied "oh they're just learning!" Learning what? it certainly wasn't any semblance of saddleseat. If the show had added extra open EP classes for them, I'd have no problem. The really upsetting thing is that there is no concept of what the discipline entails at all. If I showed up at a dressage show with a western saddle and pushed peanuts through the entire test it would be no different.

[Fanfare]

Not an appy, but a "stock type" nonetheless. Here is my first "show horse". I know I got a couple blues on this guy but I don't really remember.

:wub: This was the best horse in the world. Hands down.
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/MokeyBird/Horse/General/Chip.jpg

[vlayne]

Having seen what passes for saddleseat in my area, I understand the less charitiable comments completely. I haven't seen Apps shown Saddleseat, but there was a POA in one barn that I would have loved to have seen in a full bridle; she broke about level and was a little hot.

Some of the saddleseat classes in my area do not require the basics - full or pelham bridle, or even a snaffle w/martingale; cut back saddle; or a saddlesuit. The kids ride the same strung out ponies, in the same hunt seat equipment, in the the saddle seat class as the hunter class. To call it "saddleseat" is ridiculous. When I grumbled a comment about how sad the class was, someone replied "oh they're just learning!" Learning what? it certainly wasn't any semblance of saddleseat. If the show had added extra open EP classes for them, I'd have no problem. The really upsetting thing is that there is no concept of what the discipline entails at all. If I showed up at a dressage show with a western saddle and pushed peanuts through the entire test it would be no different.

There is a fine line betwe....

Wait. No, the line isn't fine. It's very very wide.

The difference between polite discourse/educational critique and rude snobbery/breed bashing is quite broad.

Which a person chooses to engage in says more about them than it does those who are being criticized.

EDUCATE those who are "learning." Leave the contempt out of it.

I envision these kids showing their Appys SS, and in their minds they are dreaming of that high stepping 3G horse they once saw on a YouTube video going around Madison Square Garden or on the green shavings. They do their best to emulate the grace, beauty and showmanship of the SS rider. Their heart is set on someday owning one of "those" horses and being just like one of those elegant, breathtaking SS riders, but until then, they do their best with what they have.

Until they come here on Trot and read what is said about them. Their dreams are crushed; their hearts are broken. They think that the ASB world is populated with bigots and snobs, just like their trainer told them. So they stay in the world they're comfortable in (QH, Appy, whatever) and never venture out of it.

So yea. Keep it to yourself.

[♥Gabrielle♥]

Tiff, I have to completly agree with you on this. As a kid, I rode my ASB in 4-H. There was at the time, only two places that offered SS lessons in my area, and my parents could not afford for us to board and/or train with them.
I rode my ASB in every dicipline except SS. The QH kids laughed at me in the Western classes (you should have heard the crowd the times we entered barrel classes LOL), the snobby Hunt girls whispered behind my back about how my horse was not good enough to compete against them and thier $20,000 warmbloods (kicked thier butts in hunter over fences several times). The wins never made the hurt go away though. As a kid and even into your adult years, you want to be accepted.
I just wanted to ride, and enjoy being with my horse and my friends. I learned more from that experience than words can describe, ya I was hurt, embarrased and sometimes even harrassed. I never gave up, and focused on bettering myself and now I can say that no matter what horse I get on, I am a well rounded, and versitile rider.
I applaud those riders that want to learn about other diciplines, so what if they don't follow the book on the dress and tack for the division. Showing is supposed to be fun and a time to "show" off your hard work. They aren't doing it to mock other breeds or the dicipline, they are doing it because they want to. We should treasure everyone that tries. SS is a dying dicipline and if you want it to continue, bashing others on thier unconventional mounts is not the way to go about it.
How about walking up to them and giving them a compliment, or giving them a pointer, tell them about how it was when you started riding SS, if they ask you where you got your show clothes, tell them where they can get affordable options.
Encourage, teach and promote.

[D_BaldStockings]

Thank you, Gabrielle and Vlayne for repeating that we MUST be ambassadors for SS and of course, our breed whenever possible.

While it can be difficult to look past what you see in front of you at the moment, and instead into a person's heart and what they will become in future, trying to encourage and warmly suggest can create boundless goodwill that will come back to us in the future.

I was saddened in the first post to see that although a lady was willing to make the trip to Louisville, she was unaware that there were BIG local shows she could spectate at.

Thank you for informing her and lets figure out ways to get our light out from under that bushel!

Sure, we know what is going on in our community pool, yet we need to offer that to others who don't know and welcome them when they sample the water at the wading end.

We all start out ignorant, we can use our knowledge to help others or put them down; make a friend or a foe?

[wilkinak]

How are you going to educate about saddleseat if you keep the tools in the barn? I've taken chains and stretchies to a show, also beer cans full of rocks or bells. I didn't think they were anything to be ashamed of. Ths same goes for tail sets, ginger or padded shoes. So they get a discussion started; that's a good thing. Should I have left my saddlebred at home and not taken her to an open show because she takes a flying leap when she's first hooked and that reinforces the notion that they're all nuts? Should I not take the new horse to the open show this weekend because she thinks Lippazzan for 30 minutes before deciding to work? She might not be a good ambassodor, either.

My mom showed an App saddleseat 40 years ago, and she rode it the same way as her walk trot horse. From the stories, I've heard, the horse did better there because he was bit too "upfront" for the western classes.

[♥Gabrielle♥]

How are you going to educate about saddleseat if you keep the tools in the barn? I've taken chains and stretchies to a show, also beer cans full of rocks or bells. I didn't think they were anything to be ashamed of. Ths same goes for tail sets, ginger or padded shoes. So they get a discussion started; that's a good thing. Should I have left my saddlebred at home and not taken her to an open show because she takes a flying leap when she's first hooked and that reinforces the notion that they're all nuts? Should I not take the new horse to the open show this weekend because she thinks Lippazzan for 30 minutes before deciding to work? She might not be a good ambassodor, either.

My mom showed an App saddleseat 40 years ago, and she rode it the same way as her walk trot horse. From the stories, I've heard, the horse did better there because he was bit too "upfront" for the western classes.

Is this a serious question? You can't be.
I wasn't saying for them to try out your training tools on thier horses! I was just simply saying that instead of bashing people that ride saddleseat on other breeds, try putting yourself in thier shoes.
As far as your horses go, sounds like you are using too many "tools" and not enough horsemanship. IMHO.
I give up.

[♥Gabrielle♥]

Not an appy, but a "stock type" nonetheless. Here is my first "show horse". I know I got a couple blues on this guy but I don't really remember.

:wub: This was the best horse in the world. Hands down.
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/MokeyBird/Horse/General/Chip.jpg

Cute! :wub:

[wilkinak]

Is this a serious question? You can't be.
I wasn't saying for them to try out your training tools on thier horses! I was just simply saying that instead of bashing people that ride saddleseat on other breeds, try putting yourself in thier shoes.
As far as your horses go, sounds like you are using too many "tools" and not enough horsemanship. IMHO.
I give up.

Actually, I wasn't bashing people who ride saddleseat on other breeds; I was bashing people who ride huntseat, in hunter tack and apparal, and call it saddleseat. There is a difference. I think its great when people ride saddleseat on other horses; I don't think its great promotional thing when a prize list calls for "proper attire" and very obvious hunters enter the ring, and are encouraged by a show committee that doesn't know the difference. For as many people I've seen post threads here about this or that rule being broken, it seems odd to me that this would be acceptable. Consider this - taking a roached and set walk trot horse, with a full bridle, and rider in saddlesuit into a hunter hack class, would you consider that to be a way advance the huntseat discipline?

As to the tools in my toolbox, I obviously don't use them all at the same time. They all have their uses. I just don't see the need to clean out my box before I go out in public. And the new horse is with a trainer; you should really see a what a horse does before you start questioning someone's horsemanship based on a couple sentences. And of people who know the old mare, you're congratulated, because you're the first to do so.

[vlayne]

Actually, I wasn't bashing people who ride saddleseat on other breeds; I was bashing people who ride huntseat, in hunter tack and apparal, and call it saddleseat. There is a difference. I think its great when people ride saddleseat on other horses; I don't think its great promotional thing when a prize list calls for "proper attire" and very obvious hunters enter the ring, and are encouraged by a show committee that doesn't know the difference.

I missed distinction this in your original post but after rereading I see it now. You're right - taking a horse in a Saddle Seat class in hunt or western tack is not Saddle Seat. So that, I would agree with you on. They aren't "learning" or even TRYING. At least get a flat saddle and a bridle with two reins. Wear your other attire if you must... but ride the right equipment. Horse is irrelevant.

I will never ever be on the side of anyone working a horse in ANY action devices, or the use of tail equipment, etc. at a small open (4H type) show. An open breed show that has classes specifically for Saddlebreds or PARK horses is a different story - and then ONLY if it's normally seen at that show. But going to a little fuzzy-wuzzy practice show or true "open" show and bringing all the trappings that scare most people AWAY from our breed isn't doing a darn thing to promote it or encourage folks to give it a try.

Just MHO as always.

[wilkinak]

I generally use chains more than anything, but have had people poking around in my stuff with curiosty. More "ooo, what's that for?" then "EEWWW, what's that for?" that have started some good discussions that probably wouldn't have happened if the stuff had been left at the barn.

[♥Gabrielle♥]

Wilkinak, I also misunderstood your post, in regards to the proper attire/ tack.
I have a somewhat related story: I was showing at our local fair this year, showing my NSH in WP. I had on my $$ show clothes, my horse was shining like a silver dollar, my show tack was freshly oiled and silver glistening, and here ride in these yahoos in tee-shirts and blue jeans on work saddles. I watched them follow me and a couple of others out of the ring with ribbons. Me-> :hammer:
I had to laugh, at myself afterwords.. it was a PLEASURE class. :blush: Here I am sweating like a pig in full chaps, leather vest, and a shirt I swear is made of rubber.. wishing I had a tee-shirt on, and a beer in my hand instead of my $800 rommel reins, but thankfully I came outta that ring with a 75 cent blue ribbon, and just enough cash to pay for my lunch. :sailor:

Your right, I can't judge you or your horses by a few sentences, but you made it seem to me like you couldn't show them without raising a few eyebrows, and creating discussions around how "nuts" Saddlbreds are and that you need all the "devices" you can fit in your trailer, to make them perform.
Maybe I am just too passionate about sharing how special and unique the breed is, and want so much to have the respect of our horse loving "peers" that all I saw in my head was negative images. If I think it, imagine what John Q. Public thinks? :o

[wilkinak]

The old mare was the type to generate "saddlebreds are nuts" comments. She was an absolute ball. She possesses that wonderfully problematic combination of open horse attitude and country pleasure ability. That coupled with no (and I mean zero) ASB shows in the area, left open shows, which we did a few times. I didn't have a saddlesuit, so we went in the driving classes & managed to not run over any minis, although they were very tempting. My one regret that is before I retired her, I didn't spend $100 on a hunter outfit and put her in a hunter class with a plain leather browband. It would have been an absolute riot. The 6' tail that still goes up over her back (been in a set in for 3 mos in the last 8 years) would have been the icing on the cake. Maybe you're a bigger person than I am, but having seen what passes for saddleseat, I can't help thinking that's what's good for the goose, is good for the gander.

The youngster is in NC, so the open shows have ASBs, but she is a wild card. The first show is coming up, and I literally checked to see what my insurance covers. Once she decides to work, she looks great; it just might take a 45 minute fight (spoiled brat) first. This was the trainer's call and I pay for his judgement. Fingers are crossed.

The tone from some seems to be that I should have avoided showing the old mare because she did/does the things that saddlebreds are notorious for: doesn't stand, jig jogs, takes off when your foot goes in the stirrup - all the things I love about her.

[D_BaldStockings]

The tone from some seems to be that I should have avoided showing the old mare because she did/does the things that saddlebreds are notorious for: doesn't stand, jig jogs, takes off when your foot goes in the stirrup - all the things I love about her.

If you are asked about this behavior, I hope you say something to the effect of:

Some people would change this horse's behavior, but I enjoy her as the individual she is, she is just my cup of tea!
(and add)...There are other examples of SB that are trained differently, especially at the novice and academy levels if you are looking; their range of temperaments is fascinating!

Horses with 'a bit of character' can be the most memorable, it pays to let others know not ALL are clones of the one horse they see today.

Good job!!

[ihfarm]

Hi! I have met a lot of Saddlebreds over the years that like to walk off when you get on. I have been asked about it before or seen the look on the face (especially nervous new parents)

I usually tell people ---- A lot of Saddlebreds are ready to work now and they like work. ---I basically go with the good work attitude--- keep with positive spin.

I have Saddlebreds who walk off when you get on and those that would stand there for long time, if you let them.

Now as far attitude from other people --- When I was kid my parents raised and show mules. Well, I got a lot of laughs going into the ring, but not alot coming out of the ring. We did have a mule we showed saddle seat three gaited. Because she was well behaved we got to stay. However, if we did to well (won), then we were often asked to not to come back. It got to the point, I wanted to go up to the judge, say, "place me 5th, please." Over the years at some shows this particular mare has her own fan club. We have couple shows who invite her to come and whatever child she is currently giving a good show experience.

I agree on the whole correct equipment for that class. As far as correct dress, some of the local shows in the area do allow academy type dress, especially, if you are just starting out.

Have a great day!

[Celtic Hill]

i was playing on youtube and came across this video. i thought it was cute,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Kz_M0CMXxM if you watch you will see what looks like an Arab, appy, draft, Walker and some other horses. Just thought it was neat

[vlayne]

Not half bad! The horse looked like our Academy horses do, which is no surprise, but the rider was very good! Great posture - she didn't look like a hunt rider in SS clothing. Great legs, very still and heels down. Good hands - nice and high and steady. Even her attire was correct enough for an ASB show. I'd like to see her on a Saddlebred!

All the riders I could see looked like they were riding Saddle Seat, not "their" version of it. Sure, the horses weren't high headed or high stepping, but it was still very correct riding. Double bridles, correct stirrup lengths, reverse towards the rail - very nice.

And the class had good participation!

[Samigator]

Not half bad! The horse looked like our Academy horses do, which is no surprise, but the rider was very good! Great posture - she didn't look like a hunt rider in SS clothing. Great legs, very still and heels down. Good hands - nice and high and steady. Even her attire was correct enough for an ASB show. I'd like to see her on a Saddlebred!

All the riders I could see looked like they were riding Saddle Seat, not "their" version of it. Sure, the horses weren't high headed or high stepping, but it was still very correct riding. Double bridles, correct stirrup lengths, reverse towards the rail - very nice.

And the class had good participation!

I thought the same! Good rider! And a tough pattern with those lead changes! I was also VERY impressed with the class size! Wow- I wish we had that big of classes around here, they'd actually have saddle seat classes at our open shows! Very nice, thanks for posting that!

[Celtic Hill]

Jumping back to this topic: So i met someone who has an appy that has it's superior. And it got me thinking, What is looked for in a saddleseat class say at the appy congress or what ever their big show is?

[vlayne]

I'm sure you can find an Appy forum or chat room. You'll get a much more well rounded group of answers than you would on a Saddlebred forum, with maybe one or two people who have Appy experience.