Saddlebred Representation by State Population

[canter]

I am not sure if this has been posted prior, but if it has, I do apologize and please lock.

I went to Wikipedia and compared the population for each of the top 26 most populated states in the country as of 07/01/07 and compared this to the American Saddlebred representation of stables currently listed in the ASHA Stable Directory. I did not count those stables with the same address/owner/trainer listed 2-3 times. Also, some of these farms only give lessons, only train or only breed, or all of the mentioned. You can look them up yourselves via state. You don't have to be a member to do this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_population

This is what I found.....thoughts you marketing research/promotion people out there??? Some analysis please.

Of course, KY will be number 1 in representation as KY is the horse capital of the world.

In population size, KY has an estimated 4.2 million people. CA has 36.55 million people, TX with 23.9 and NY with 19.3 (all rounded). Kentucky has more than 3 times the ASB stable listings than states with multiple times that of population.

Where are we marketing? Why does everyone 'flock' to KY? Is flocking hurting the local state shows, promotion of the ASB, the industry OUTSIDE of KY? It seems that the stables are all moving to KY. How do we get people/families in Los Angeles, Houston, Dallas, New York City, Boston, Denver, Chicago, Atlanta, Miami, etc., that may be interested in a horse or lessons to become interested in the ASB when the great stables are in Simpsonville/Shelbyville (population < 15,000)? I am interested in what you have to say.

1. CA 30 ASB Stables Listed
2. TX 19 Stables
3. NY 11 Stables
4. FL 26 Stables
5. IL 35 Stables
6. PA 20
7. OH 33
8. MI 15
9. GA 22
10. NC 38
11. NJ 6
12. VA 27
13. WA 11
14. MA 5
15. IN 17
16. AZ 11
17. TN 32
18. MO 31
19. MD 1
20. WI 39
21. MN 19
22. CO 15
23. AL 12
24. SC 14
25. LA 7
26. KY 114

The next listed is Puerto Rico (0), and then #27 is Oregon with 10 stables.

Thanks.

[3kidsandahorse]

WV will not make that list for population. However, I'm sure that I could name at least 20 saddlebred stables without much trouble.

[canter]

Thanks for reading threekids. ASHA has 27 stables listed for WV. They were one of the first I counted.

[asbmagic]

They have done away with saddle seat classes in the open shows, where I live due to "not enough interest" therefore no money??? I have only been showing for two years and was totally disheartened?? They combine hunt seat and saddle seat together instead. I don't think the riding styles even look the same, or am I wrong?

If you pay to go I would much rather have a full class than have a two horse class which seems to happen. The big show barns in my area always seem to go south instead of showing in their own backyard?? Why is that?

[mskyar]

Lack of local shows, lack of small shows, lack of all size shows!!!!! The smaller shows need to be supported, pushed for, added, and not just the big ones....And, in my opinion, we need to go back to having more All Breed shows.......KY has the fair circuit plus lots of other Saturday night specials.....When I quit CA had Del Mar, Santa Barbara, Monterey, Cow Palace, Futurity, Hollywood Charity (just started and gone in about 3 years). While I was doing it we lost Sacramento,, Channel City (another in Santa Barbara), Tally Ho at Menlo Circus Club, and some others, but we are taxing my brain at the moment! San Diego had a lot of one day shows, but it was too far for us for one day. We would also go to Arizona to show, in those day Phoenix A to Z, which is also gone. Sadly I am not familiar enough with other states other than what I read.

There has to be someplace for people who want to show, but don't want to or can't afford to do the "big time", normal middle class people who do not have unlimited funds, but enough to support their daughters, sons, wives or their own horse habit.........KSF would go back to being a normal show, not a marathon, if everyone and their mother didn't insist on showing there....yes it could and maybe should be everyones dream to make it there, but let's be realistic, a lot of those horses/riders shouldn't be there (please don't yell at me!!!! JMHO) It was always my dream to show there, but it never happened....one of my horses made it the year she sold and she got a great ribbon, just not with me! If I have rambled, I'm sorry......I am pleasantly surprised to see the number in CA, hope it maintains.

[attafox]

The number in CA is off. One of the stables is listed twice (bringing it down to 29) - and that stable doesn't have ASBs anymore (it's a Morgan barn). 6 of the other stables are out of business (down to 23), and 5 are breeding farms. OTOH, there are a few that I can think of that aren't on the list ... And less than 10 have lesson programs ...

[SaddlebredMom]

The number is off for Florida as well. There are 2 duplicates and at least 12 questionable stables listed; 2 of which I know for certain are no longer in operation here. :huh: Maybe it's time to update the data so it's accurate and gives a more realistic picture of the true status of the breed.

[canter]

If my numbers are off by one or two, I do apologize. I had someone talking to me and a TV blasting a football game at the same time with the phone ringing. I wouldn't know who is still in business or who is out of business in CA or FL. I did see one in FL that has moved to KY. The one in CA that moved to KY I didn't count as that person is listed in KY.

My questions still remain the same.

My point is that there are VERY LARGE cities out there with LOTS AND LOTS of potential. Why aren't these markets being tapped? Why do most of the ASB farms cluster in one small area? Why don't those 10 lesson barns in CA take advantage of what the ASHA has to offer them for promotion and potential bigger business profit?

One example in a BROAD spectrum here: 10 year old Susie from White Plains, NY has an interest in horses. Mom and Dad want to give her riding lessons. What does she see around her or have offered to her? Not an ASB, that's for sure. Susie grows up riding and showing horses learning the stigma that others have taught her about the ASB. One potentially great customer lost.

Maybe this would clarify a bit better.

Mskyar and Asbmagic do have a point. Thank you!! Susie could have gone to see the horses at Madison Square Garden to watch the Saddlebreds and see their beauty. Not any more in New York City.

[SaddlebredMom]

If my numbers are off by one or two, I do apologize. I had someone talking to me and a TV blasting a football game at the same time with the phone ringing. I wouldn't know who is still in business or who is out of business in CA or FL. I did see one in FL that has moved to KY. The one in CA that moved to KY I didn't count as that person is listed in KY.

I wasn't finding fault with your numbers. The problem is that apparently the data ASHA is using to compile these lists is outdated and if that is what they, or anyone else for that matter, are relying on, it will give an inaccurate portrayal of the number of saddlebred barns that exist. That is my concern -- is the situation actually worse than they think because they are relying on stale data, and will the sense of urgency over the decline of the breed be enhanced by bringing the count of existing saddlebred barns current.

[canter]

Thank you SaddlebredMom for your comments and your interest!!! Great points well taken!

Is it that a stable pays a fee to be listed for 1-2 years as in the periodicals and then never cancels their ad or is it that the ASHA doesn't update their database on a regular basis?

Thanks again!

I was asking a broad spectrum of questions, so I thought that any discussion here would be great!

[SaddlebredMom]

Is it that a stable pays a fee to be listed for 1-2 years as in the periodicals and then never cancels their ad or is it that the ASHA doesn't update their database on a regular basis?

I don't know how they get their stable info, it looks like you can add/correct it if you are a member, but I do know that 1 of the Florida barns listed moved out to Colorado at least 3 years ago, and the barn that closed and then moved to Kentucky was 3 - 4 years ago as well. I also know of 2 existing barns that aren't listed on there, so it cuts both ways.

[attafox]

The barn info is "self" added - someone representing the barn has to enter it, and correspondingly, edit/correct it. I think we all need to update the webmaster appropriately by sending an email to him for corrections.

[Pamela]

There are a number of thoughts, most of which boil down to economics...

1) in many of the more urban areas, real estate is expensive and so are the property taxes. Having enough land to have a barn, horses, outdoor ring, maybe indoor ring, housing for owner/trainer/caretakers, parking is cost prohibitive.

For example, in a town called Shamong, NJ, MLS ID #5342124, which is about 1 hr from Philadelphia and its Northeastern burbs, you can get a nice 86 acre property for 3.5 mill. Or you can get a much smaller property for 700K. MLS ID #5378162 Neither one is ready to use: small or no barn, outdoor arena only, etc. Property taxes are a nightmare. Imagine, as a trainer, how many horses you would need to have in training and how much you would have to charge per month, per show, etc only to cover the expenses.

So you go towards where property is less expensive...or you get more for the money. How about a property in Simpsonville for 3.5 mill: MLS ID #1219932. 6 bedrooms, 7 baths, 31 acres and a separate caretakers home with 3 bedrooms, 1 1/2 baths. a small barn is on the property. I bet the taxes are a lot lower there than up here...

2) a smart business person will go where the demand is...if the demand is in the south, that's where they will go.

3) a really competitive horse person (with the $$) will go where there is real competition and "top notch" training.

it's a really tough situation.

[mskyar]

My point is that there are VERY LARGE cities out there with LOTS AND LOTS of potential. Why aren't these markets being tapped? Why do most of the ASB farms cluster in one small area? Why don't those 10 lesson barns in CA take advantage of what the ASHA has to offer them for promotion and potential bigger business profit?

One example in a BROAD spectrum here: 10 year old Susie from White Plains, NY has an interest in horses. Mom and Dad want to give her riding lessons. What does she see around her or have offered to her? Not an ASB, that's for sure. Susie grows up riding and showing horses learning the stigma that others have taught her about the ASB. One potentially great customer lost.

Susie could have gone to see the horses at Madison Square Garden to watch the Saddlebreds and see their beauty. Not any more in New York City.

How about this, 10 yr old Susie from Los Angeles/San Francisco can take riding lessons, go to a few academy shows per year for a few years, but then has no next level to go to unless her family is ready to spend some real money and move way up to the "big" time, what is she to do??? If she took up H/J she would have a show just about every weekend almost year round that she could go to and ride in about 6 classes per day versus maybe 3 in three or five days and still not spend a fortune. She could stay at that level forever, and be perfectly content, or take the jump up to the next level, then if money is no object the next level after that and at all those shows never even see a ASB since shows are so specialized these days, hence they never get the opportunity to learn about other breeds. This goes for all types of disciplines, not just ASB's or SS. Please, please don't take what I am about to say the wrong way, but a lot of our professionals are guilty of trying to get people to jump from the beginning levels to the "big" time and in doing so scare many of them away, I was guilty of that once, and learned my lesson the hard way......I am so glad that when I started riding all the shows had the three main styles of riding, H/J, Western, and Saddleseat...met lots of people and we all enjoyed everyone elses horses no matter what they did! Again, JMHO..........

In reply to what Pamela posted while I was writing...CA is very cost prohibitive to owning land for a training business, but has been that way forever, at least near a major area.....Many of the barns are in public stables...there a some privately owned places, but most of them have been owned for awhile....what she says makes perfect sense...you would have to give a whole lot of lessons to have a place in LA or most parts of the Bay area, and I am not excluding San Deigo either.

[attafox]

Susie could have gone to see the horses at Madison Square Garden to watch the Saddlebreds and see their beauty. Not any more in New York City.

Not a particularly good example - Susie can't see any horses at Madison Square Garden.

[lshiely]

Great thread Bess, I wish I had more answers myself. I am not sure how ASHA attempts to market to the masses, but I am certainly not an expert in marketing either.

15 Saddlebred stables in Colorado? I have no idea who they are and I would know. I will have to go check out the list. While I'm at it, I will have to get Kim to update her information because I am assuming she (Heirloom) is the one still listed in Florida but has since moved to Colorado!

[SaddlebredMom]

While I'm at it, I will have to get Kim to update her information because I am assuming she (Heirloom) is the one still listed in Florida but has since moved to Colorado!

Yup, that be her. :)

[SaddlebredMom]

The points raised by Pamela and Mskyar have a lot of merit. Obviously the barns will appear where it is cost effective to keep one, and property values and taxes are a determining factor. They also need an infrastructure to support them, such as feed stores, tack shops, available farriers and equine vets, etc.. Like water seeking it's lowest level, new barns (or relocating barns since that seems to be the current trend) are gravitating to the already established, and proven successful, equine (ASB) hubs. That's a smart business decision. :yes:

The lack of shows is another major factor. I see that in my area daily as there are a plethora of H/J and dressage shows here, but ASB shows are scarcer than a hen's teeth. 3 shows are left (1 in the spring, 2 in the fall) and the turn out at those is fair to middling at best. Why would you want to spend all that money to buy and train a saddlebred show horse only to have to travel out of state all the time to show it, when you can spend the same amount, maybe even less, to own an Arab, TB, WB or QH and show it every weekend if you want. So where's the incentive to have a saddlebred barn or a saddlebred show horse in areas like this? Well that's simple; there isn't any. :no:

[5asbs]

No listings in Iowa?:sad: Or did I miss it?

[rhettdgn]

The listing only includes the top 26. CT isn't listed as well. The numbers must be so low that they aren't included. I know Renee is in Iowa and she is top shelf. In CT there are three of note and a few small places. Not inspiring numbers at all.