Leasing Mare for Breeding

[WhenPigsFly]

Not sure if this is posted in the correct spot....
Have a friend who has an Arabian Mare that is currently for sale, she has had a lady contact her about leasing the mare to be used as a broodmare. The lady has rights to a stallion, whom the mare will be bred to and then after the baby is weaned my friend gets her mare back or the lady might option to buy her. My friend has never had any experience with this type of situation and is looking for good solid guidance. Of course, she knows about contracts, etc. but wants details. Pros, cons, things to think about for a first timer, etc. What do people usually pay to "lease" a mare for breeding? Any information will be very helpful.
Thanks.

[roadpony]

I leased my (maiden) ASB mare several years ago to a fellow customer in my barn. We never had a signed contract (I know) because we've known each other for a long time. Fortunately everything was fine without a hitch. Your friend definately should have a signed contract.

He basically took responsibility for ALL expenses as if he owned her - vet, farrier, board, insurance, etc. Even though he paid the mortality insurance premium, it was still payable to me if she had died.

In my case, the mare was not for sale, and it helped my cash flow until I was in a position to breed her myself. The major con in your friend's case is that the mare is off the market for over a year if the lessor decides not to buy her.

[Ride2Live]

DEFINITELY get something in writing! A friend of a friend of mine wound up with an absolute horror story that would have been easily prevented if they'd had a contract.

That aside, if the mare is healthy enough to be bred, I think the biggest con to the seller is that if the person leasing her doesn't buy her, they still have to try and sell her after the fact.

[maytime]

Also be sure to specify what will happen to the mare after she foals. Are you going to breed her on the foal heat or right after? That may entail shipping the mare and her newborn foal to a repro clinic or even to another farm. Who is responsible for that? Should the foal be harmed or injured during the stay, make sure everything is all spelled out. Since the mare will be out of your care about 17 or 18 months minimum, make sure the leasee knows your plans to breed the mare back if you choose. There is risk in getting the mare and foal to the repro clinic several times. I can imagine some leasees, with a new foal safe in the field at home with mom, may be less than willing to abide by your breeding wishes. Just a thought if you don't want to leave the mare open for another year.

[davish]

Get a contract signed - no if's ands or buts! You have the right to put as many conditions in that contract as you state allows so do it. It is the only way to protect yourself and your horse and even then bad things can happen. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for doing this. It can really help both parties in many ways but you must get a contract signed to do it wright. Roadpony was very lucky it didn't go bad for her and I'm glad it didn't. I have leased several horses over the past 10 years and a couple of them were for breeding. In one case, neither mare got in foal and ended up coming home but one of them had been turned out in a pasture with a thick nylon halter that was several sizes too small and her head was hurt pretty bad. We had gone to visit and found her like this and took her home that very day and voided the contract on the bases of poor care as it was outlined in our contract. In another case, our mare went to Kentucky were she was going to be picked up by the leasee but that fell through and I had to ask a friend to go get her suddenly to keep from lossing her due to an unpaid board bill. My friend ended up using her for the remaneder of the lease and we never had any issues and she still has the baby from that breeding. It can really go either way but if you make your lease contract very detailed right down to the smallest of details, it can be a very good plan for both parties.

Good luck!!
Heather

[Peris Mom]

I've leased out several of our mares for breeding over the years & have had no problems -- but I'm convinced it is because the contract is very clear cut. We have done our leases two ways: A leasee may lease the mare to breed to a stallion of their choice that we also like & "payment" is returning the mare to us in foal to the same stallion. The leasee pays all expenses, including board, for the duration of the contract. The other way has been to lease the mare to breed to a stallion that we are not interested in having a foal by (it still must be a stallion we "approve", just not one we choose to breed back to, such as a breeding to an Arabian, etc.) and the leasee pays us a flat fee for the use of the mare. In our case, we generally keep the mares with us for the duration of the pregnancy, foaling, etc., (again, excluding trips to the breeding facility).

As I said, the has worked well for us. In fact, we have a mare who is a full sister to our stallion who is having her second foal -- both products of leases. The trainer for the lady who is leasing her this year is so hot on this mare -- I think he'd lease her every year if I let him. :) We did have a couple of situations where the contract had to be terminated but because we had a good contract, it was done easily & without any nastiness. Both involved people who came on hard times, could not fulfill their financial end of the contract & let us have the resulting foal. Interestingly, both of these individuals later BOUGHT the resulting foals from us! :thumbup:

If your friend's mare is going to be stabled somewhere else, make sure it is someplace she can get to easily to check on the mare. Altho' all of my mare leases have turned out well, I've had some other leases, etc., that were not so fortunate. The only exception I would make to this is if the mare will be with someone she knows WELL & has seen first hand how the horses are cared for. Even then, get a contract.

As far as the horse being for sale, we stipulate in the contract whether the mare is for sale or not. If she is & an offer is made, the leasee has the option of a) putting a value on the foal en utero & selling it with the mare; b) matching the offer & buying the mare him/herself or c) allowing the mare to be sold but retaining the foal & insisting that the terms of the lease be completed as far as the leasee is concerned. We did sell one mare during a lease where the purchaser made a deposit on the mare then paid the remainder & took physical possession of her when the foal was weaned. Again, worked well for all.

While the "con" may be that you can't sell the mare out right, in this economic climate the fact that she is off your "food chain" for the next year plus may outweigh that. Also, if she is being marketed as a broodmare, the fact that she is in foal is a plus as many people shy away from broodmares who've been out of production for even a short period of time.

Good luck!

[GottaDrive]

I've done it several times and it has always worked out well for both parties. Once with a written agreement and twice without. Also, you do need to register the lease with ASHA if you want to be the recorded breeder of the foal. If I would lease a mare I'd require that it stay in my control. I don't think I'd ship her off to wherever unless I really really knew the people who would be taking care of her.

[Simon Fredricks]

I have had very satisfactory experiences leasing broodmares over the years.
Simbara's Sweet Lorraine was the product of such a lease who became a W,C.
I would never agree to lease a mare I could not be in control of and move to my
facility in Danville, Ky. with my trainer in control and my reproductive Vet
responsible for her care.
One of the advantages of leasing the mare for the lessor is freeing up the cost of her maintenence.
I have also had occassion to lease with an option to purchase at an agreed set price from
an owner that wanted to sell the mare.

[Rhythm&Grace]

Well the pros for the owner include getting the mare off of your ticket. The cons would be opportunity costs. If the mare is currently for sale and you lease her and then get an offer what would you do? Also, a clear cut contract is a must! In addition to the standard language regarding who is responsible for the mare and her care during the lease, you may also want to address the issue of what would happen in the unfortunate instance that the mare were to expire, become injured or unusable for breeding or show purposes. Would the owner be compensated for the mares value and loss of use? Also you need to consider how you would handle a suituation in which the lessee had a different standard of care than the lessor (can be a pro or a con). I, too would be hesitant to lease one of my mares and turn them over with no say in their care. This issue should be addressed through a contract.

For the lessee you have a lot of benefit with little risk. First, if the mare does not turn out to be a good producer you are able to return her to the owner. (Of course the reverse is actually a con. What if the mare turns out to be a good producer based off of the cross you have researched? You will likely have to return the mare to the owner. and they may benefit from a now proven cross) Second, it allows newbies the chance to become a breeder without the full committment. By this I mean, you don't actually own the mare so you don't have the risk of running your own breeding operation and the upfront costs that are required.

Breeding is a crapshoot. The best you can do is sway the odds in your favor. There are a lot of broodmares out there that should have been great and weren't. Likewise, there are several that shouldn't have been great and were. When you lease a broodmare you limit your risk to the length of the contract. The owner does not have that luxury and is responsible for the mare, good or bad, until ownership transfers. Expect to pay a premium for proven broodmares.

[Simon Fredricks]

You can NOT have your cake and eat it also. The only reasons to lease a mare are that
you do not intend to breed her for that season and do not want the cost and concerns
of maintaining her for a lost year of production or you want to sell her and could not
find a buyer and are doubtful you will find one in the near future.
If someone is willing to lease her that becomes a positive.
You can NOT lease her and also hope to control. The answer is to only lease to what
you are convinced are responsible people where she will be boarded and cared for at a very properly run farm.
Death is a risk we all take. If you are so concerned about that you can insure the mare
appropriately. You can NOT expect the lessee to pay you for the mare is she dies of a natural cause, or if she has a bad labour or uterine infection and can no longer breed
that is the risk of ownership.
If the lessee does not want to give back the mare if she produces a nice foal the answer is to negotiate for a lease WITH an option to purchase at a predetermined set price.
If you lease and then get an offer to sell the mare that is too bad but you are committed

[Rhythm&Grace]

The following website provides some helpful information in leasing a broodmare and provides an overview of the top 5 problems encountered in broodmare leases (several of which have been touched on in this thread).

http://www.equinelegalsolutions.com/broodmareleases.html

You might be surprised to know that there are breeding contracts that require the lessee to insure the leased horse. So yes, if the mare were to die or become injured in anothers care I can and do expect to be reimbursed for the mare as per the contract. Likewise, if the mare was found to be in poor condition, the contract would be terminated and the mare would return to my care. This is in the contract and is also mentioned under problem #4 from the website above.

Likewise, as the owner, you can have control over your mare once you lease her. This can also be addressed in the contract. As a second to what Peri's mom mentioned, the majority of brood mare leases I have been aware of/involved in the mare remained at the owners facility or with the owner's breeders- NOT the lessee. The standard of care for a mare is mentioned in problem # 2 of the above website. Although, I personally would not have a problem leasing a mare offsite to someone I trusted and with whom I had a solid contract, I can't fault someone that would not send their mare offsite.

That being said, I think this thread illustrates the need to have expectations outlined, understood, and agreed upon before a mare is leased. There appears to be differing opinions in terms of what you can and can't have when leasing a mare. Remember, this is a mutually agreeable contract. Just because this is something you personally would not agree to does not mean there isn't someone else that would.

[Simon Fredricks]

Leasing a mare is an act of negotiation. All things are possible. It is all a matter of what a willing lender and a willing borrower will agree upon.
In these days of economic decline those who wish to reduce costs in the short run and still end up owning their mare for the future will probably need to be more flexable in their
demands to get the deal done.
The agreement to lease needs to be a fair and equitable to both sides or in most
instances it will not happen.
Leasing a mare that you own is NOT a big money generating event. It improves your
cash flow for the term of the lease and simultaneously preserves your ownership of the mare for future breedings.
It has to be a win/win deal for both the Lessee and the lessor or it will not happen.
The lessee is taking ALL the monitary risk and therefore can not reasonably be expected
to accept additional obligations like insurance and mare location etc etc that the lessor
would prefer. If you can get that done then congratulations and more power to you.
I was trying to describe for the original enquiry what in my experience and opinion
that reasonable people would expect and anticipate