2008 South African National Saddle Horse Championships

[jabulani]

Hi Guys,

For those of you with an interest in the South African saddle Horse Industry, go have a peak at some pictures at http://www.toppyhunt.co.za/

Enjoy,
Pieter

[lshiely]

Wow, there are several awesome looking horses there, a bet a couple will be making their way here, ala our current WGC 5-gaited horse!

[atlas]

I have heard that the South African Saddlebreds that are here breeding and showing are not full saddlebreds. If I am understanding correctly, the saddle type indigenous "Cape Horse" ,of mixed background, has been crossed to the imported "purebred" Saddlebreds from America. It seems that some interesting discussions could arise from taking a look at how the SA Saddlebred is impacting our industry and why it is doing well. Will anyone shed some light here?

[Cherokee03]

I have heard that the South African Saddlebreds that are here breeding and showing are not full saddlebreds. If I am understanding correctly, the saddle type indigenous "Cape Horse" ,of mixed background, has been crossed to the imported "purebred" Saddlebreds from America. It seems that some interesting discussions could arise from taking a look at how the SA Saddlebred is impacting our industry and why it is doing well. Will anyone shed some light here?

I found this article http://www.artbycrane.com/horsearticles/soafrica.html
I will see what else I can find.

http://www.studbook.co.za/Society/saddlehorse/societyhist.php

[VLayne]

The mixing happened WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY back in their pedigrees, it's not up close. I believe it happened back when the ASB registry was still open.

Do a search on the ASHA pedigree site for (SA) and you'll pull up a list of all the South African horses that are currently registered with ASHA. Go through their pedigrees - you'll see they have registered ASBs up front. It's only when you go back 5 or more generations that they disappear.

[atlas]

I did the (SA) search on the ASHA site as you said and found many blank papers. Is the SA breeding book still open to accepting any "Cape Horse" mare or stallion that any SA breeder may see fit to breed in order to continue their vision, or is it closed now to the "Cape Horse" type? It seems almost like we have a cross breed of sorts showing and breeding amongst us. What are some of the qualities that people seem to appreciate from the (SA) bred horse? Does anyone feel that these horses may have an edge or outstanding difference over the American bred horse. Do they train better? Are they hardier? More substance in regards to bone or athleticism? I am just curious to hear some dialogue about these intriguing horses and the breeders who are breeding them.

[VLayne]

I was under the impression that the blank pedigrees were blank because the owners are not supplying the complete papers - not because there are outside breeds in the bloodline.

If that IS the case, and these horses are not full Saddlbreds (beginning from the date that the registry closed) I don't believe they should be allowed into the registry nor allowed to compete as Saddlebreds. Because then, according to the rules, they are NOT Saddlebreds.

Who decided part breds could be registered as full breds???

[atlas]

The SA horse has wins and losses in the show ring and breeding shed....just like the rest of us. I, in no way, am threatened by the chance that these imported SA horses are not full blooded Saddlebreds. Those in the biz know that our own papers were flawed (Standardbreds, wrong sire or dam, etc.) up until testing! Perhaps the SA breeders started and ran their own registry and are/were just savvy enough to responsibly customise it with some" hybrid vigor ". I don't know this as a fact and I am waiting for someone to weigh in here....anybody.....hello? Perhaps SA breeders saw that they wanted to improve the mousetrap and bent a few wires. Maybe they heard their customers say they wanted more stamina, height, soundness, natural ability, or whatever and tinkered with a thing or two. Crossing horses with a keen eye and a registry to back it up as long as the "ideal type" remained the standard, is a really exciting and groundbreaking concept. If I was inclined to not want SA breeding in my program...well then I just wouldn't breed to it or have any on my show string.. I am fine with the SA horse here and I can't wait till we can perhaps be competing in a class with horses from the future hypothetical Netherlands ASB registry or China's ASB Assoc. with their respective initials in parenthesis before their names. Let's see.....my ideal horse....1/4 Dutch Harness Horse (I wouldn't breed one with a large head or short neck as there are bad ones and good ones in all breeds) 3/4 ASB(same here...no crooked legs, bad attitudes, straight necks, etc.).......no anvil double nailed to that hoof! Why couldn't our American breeders add a little "BAM" to their recipe if they saw fit? What is that Show Horse Alliance thing anyway and how come those SA horses get the exception to our now very strict standards and rules of purebredism? Under the radar....

[atlas]

http://www.capeboerperd.co.za/capeboerperdbreeders.htm

[lshiely]

I find this interesting and I hope others with experience and/or knowledge about this subject will weigh in! I know that Casey's Final Countdown was very unlike any horse I have seen in person for a very long time. He was very wild looking (in a good way, I could imagine him running with his own herd of mares mustang style) and in some ways very natural. I am not doing a very good job of explaining it, but perhaps someone else can.

I am very interested in the SA horses and their breeding. They do seem to have a little bit of a different look to them which could be due to a very selective breeding process, a smaller gene pool, or something else. Please don't read into this post that I am saying SA is doing a better job than what our great breeders have done, I am just interested in the differences.

Thanks,

Leslie

[VLayne]

how come those SA horses get the exception to our now very strict standards and rules of purebredism? Under the radar....

That is all I'm saying as well. I have no problem with the horses (in fact I really like every one that I've seen in person!), but I'm wondering why their lineage is not being held to the same standards?

[Cherokee03]

OK... so if I am reading the registry correctly Dorian Wild Temper;s 2nd dam is no part saddlebred which means his dam was only a half saddlebred, which means he is only 3/4 saddlebred???? I counted 76 mares and 24 stallions that were crossed with American Saddlebreds. I am assuming that these were "Cape" horses?? Oh I really wish someone with some expert in this area would chime in?!!?!?!?!?!!!

[VLayne]

Maybe if someone starts a new topic on this, experts would chime in. But right now, they're most likely missing this.

[atlas]

Would love to hear from people breeding their mares to these studs. I know where there is a stallion that is out of Callaways Alice Blue Gown and by Fabricious (DHH). I believe there are some photos of him in the breeding and bloodlines forum under the topic Dutch Harness Stallion. I want to breed him to my saddlebred mare and be able to register the resulting foal.....wouldn't this level the playing field? As breeders can we not have a little American ingenuity.....is our registry not our registry. These crosses are already happening and they would blend seamlessly into our classes. They will win and get beat just like everyone else......BTW Michelle is a phenominal trainer. Her horses look that way for a reason. Someone else could have taken Casey and nailed on a big package and pissed him off beyond belief with an overbearing program.

[roadpony]

Since VLayne was kind enough to start a new topic in the Bloodlines & Breeding forum - http://www.trot.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1838 - let's get this one back on topic. Thanks! :)

[virtualasb]

For a copy of The South African National Championships on DVD

Contact Ian Barrie for a copy at ian@wayup.co.za <ian@wayup.co.za>. The cost is 500 Rand and I dont know what that is in USD. Maybe they can set up to take pay pal or send a copy over here! I would like to see this!!

Reposted in the right spot ;)

[Cherokee03]

" The cost is 500 Rand and I dont know what that is in USD. ". Last time I checked the Rand (March) it was 7R to 1 USD so maybe $70.00?