Are we snobs?

[TakeAchance]

I have to do a project for school, and our topic is "Do we as saddlebred people come off as "snobs" in the sense that we don't tack up our horses etc, and what can we do to make our image better in the horse world" Any insight would be great
natalie

[Fanfare]

Hi, TakeAChance, and welcome to Trot, I hope we all can help. Is this topic assigned or did you choose the topic?

Sorry, it will take me a moment to word my response properly so as not to enflame or embarrass myself(probably the latter). I just thought I'd welcome you and suggest you look through the "Marketing and Promotion" section of this board for MANY responses on how we can improve our perceived image.

[gotatrotter]

My perception is that the ASB people worry too much about others' perception. If you love what you do and believe in it, why be so concerned? It feels to me, when I read on this board sometimes, that a lot of ASB/saddleseat people have an inferiority complex -- which becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. I subscribed to it when I first got involved, almost apologizing to H/J and other folks that we were saddlebred people. And I would get this "oh that's too bad" kind of vibe back.

Nowadays, I say it -- we're saddlebred people -- with conviction and pride. Even at the H/J tack store. You know what? I've had several people say "oh, I've always wanted to try riding a saddlebred" and I tell them that I'd be happy to make that happen.

As for not tacking our own horses -- I think that's a matter of preference and I think in any discipline you would find those who preferred to pay others to do so and those who do it themselves -- either as a cost saving measure or as a preference. To me, the grooming and tacking are part of the whole, awesome experience of horsemanship.

[High Stakes]

"Snob" is such a nebulous, general and non-specific term I don't think it's a good topic for a school paper.

First you'd have to define "snob", and I don't think horse people define themselves in that way e.g. snob vs non-snob, lol. Snobbery is an attitude that has nothing to do with grooming or not geooming your own horse.

I'd define your subject more closely. Maybe discussing myths and misperceptions about ASBs, or Saddle seat riding.

[3kidsandahorse]

Who says we don't tack up our own horses? When I was young, the school horses were tacked up for the riders because the horses went 4-5 lessons per day. :blink: I look back on that and say "poor things". But anyway, since I've come back to riding, both barns require you to tack up your horses.

Going to a show, some barns ask that you bathe your horse beforehand, pick out its tail, clean its hooves, and take all your tack with you. Some barns bathe and pack for you. Some barns get your horse ready for you at the show, some don't. I personally spent many an hour picking out Belle's tail before a show. That mare has quite a tail, I can tell you! In a way I'm glad to let someone else do that. In a way I feel uncomfortable, since I like to do things myself. It's just what you are used to.

IME barns that get your horse ready for you charge lots more than those that don't. So maybe the ones that do cater more to people that COULD be called snobs. Stereotyping, yes, but that is what you are arguing against, isn't it?

We can make our image better by being nice to each other and to non-ASB people. :oops: Whether you tack up/bathe/groom/train/muck after your horse has nothing to do with your image, really. Other people need to get to know us as horsepeople who love our horses, who spend LOTS of $$ on them, who don't treat them poorly, and who are willing to do what it takes to keep them healthy, happy, comfortable, etc.

What differs is people's interpretation of what it takes to keep them...:tongue_smilie:

[ny_asb]

You may want to redefine your topic... it's a little broad and stereotypical and narrow all in the same sentence.. And you'll probably NOT want to get opinions from here on the subject. The "snob" title can go with any breed... so I wouldn't limit it to your own.... if it is your own. Attend a Hunter/Jumper show, Quarter Horse show.... the list is endless.... many SHOW horse owners don't tack their own (regardless of the breed). That's why we pay a trainer- whether it's an arabian, quarter horse, warmblood or mule. However there are numerous amounts of us that don't know how to act when someone else tacks our horse up. You're playing into the stereotype by writing this paper.... don't.

Signed,
One who has tacked and has not tacked her own horse.

[5gait]

We are not snobs we just have the perfect horse!

[gizmo]

I don't think that you can really say that all saddlebred people let someone else tack their horse for them. My husband and I run a barn where our customers are free to tack their own horses if they choose. Some of our owners choose to, some don't ..........and that's ok. Personally, I think it is great that they want to spend a little QT with their horse.

I would not write that paper. I would definitely think about changing your topic........IMO.
:)

The general public does not seem to know a great deal about our breed. Maybe you topic could be more focused on how to educate the masses to help others better understand the wonderful horses that we love.

[Wind_Chill]

Agreed with what the others say- maybe a more specific topic?
And its hard to stereotype people into one group or the other- those who dont get their horse ready, and those who do. I know some people that could more than afford to hire someone else to get their horse ready, but who would jump in and help if the opportunity arose. Others want nothing to do with the nonriding part.
Me personally? I refuse NOT to help brace my horses tail, get him tacked up, groomed, bathed before, etc at any show, no matter how big or small.

[fiasco]

When I went to watch my first Saddlebred breed shows--about 15 years ago--coming from a western background, and looking to see if Saddlebreds would be appropriate for eventing, my answer would be--well, not snobs per se, but as a TV show from my high school years said, "Totally different head."

I was astonished at prevailing idea that show horses couldn't be kept at home. Not merely because of the tail-set, but because they were too much for the riders to handle. Why in the world would you throw your kid up on a horse that couldn't be ridden without the watchful eye of the trainer? And horses that couldn't be ridden outside of an arena?

And that's what people said when we talked: the horse couldn't. Not, we can't have horses where we live, or we're not horsemen enough yet to handle the horse at home or on the trail, but that the horse couldn't . I remember finally saying to one person about my age, well, why don't you make it? Train it? Try? And she looked at me like I just came from the mothership: These Are Show Horses! They don't do trail!

I was less astonished at the reliance upon grooms; I'd seen that at hunter/jumper shows. But walking through the barns at those shows it still floored me--as it did and still does at h/j--at how many people jumped off their horse, gave it a pat, and toss the reins to someone else. People showing multiple horses, that's understandable.

I came away with the feeling that many of these folks aren't horsemen (gender-generic term) but merely passengers. But then, I feel that way about some of the h/j folks I see, too. It appears--whether it's true or not is debatable--that there's a bit of a disconnect there: someone takes care of your horse, rides your horse, and for your lesson time and show time you hop on and zip around the arena for your w/t/c/ and then someone puts your horse up.

Again, I think "snob" is the wrong word for it. Of course, for working class folks who are robbing Peter to pay Paul so they can keep their one horse, people who can afford the $$$ to board and show with a trainer can be slammed with the all-purpose insult of "rich snobs" even if the "rich" is relative and the "snob" part is non-existent.

In this thread you'll probably get a lot of anecdotal evidence like mine, and a lot from folks who do it all themselves.

The real answer to your question comes from the outside: not whether Saddlebred owners and exhibitors think they're snobs but what is the appearance to others. Once you find a consistent idea (or ideas) then you can come up with counter-measures.

Good luck with your project!!

[PatShaver]

At our barn, a lot of the young ladies have their show horses ready for them at shows and it does appear that they do get on the horse just for the class. If you didn't know better, you would think that they are "princesses" and aren't horsemen. What most people don't know is that most of them hang out at the barn and volunteer to do things around the barn. They brush horses, they clean tack, work on the arena, etc. They get down and dirty. If you hang around the shows for the entire day, you will see those same show riders working to get the academy horses ready for the young riders.

It's my belief that those show riders can most certainly tack their own horses and get them ready. However, the trainer wants the horses exactly right and, let's face it, there are some nerve issues right before their classes. It's JMHO, but our trainer would rather them concentrate on what they need to do in class and let the hired help get their horses ready. Who cares what it looks like to others?

[SaddlebredMom]

Who says we don't tack up our own horses?

Ditto. :huh:

Take the advice from Fanfare and read through the Marketing & Promotion threads about debunking perceived misconceptions. And also take the advice the others have given here and change the way you word your topic to start out with a positive statement rather than a negative which you will have to argue against.

[Fanfare]

I will say that I do not get my horses ready before my class at a larger show(off the truck shows, you bet), only because I am usually in show clothes, getting myself ready, and get run out of the stall so as not to get my suit dirty. My mom, my dad, and my sisters get them ready and tacked for me. Before I am dressed though, you bet I'm helping.

And it is like that with all my sisters. We all help get each others horses ready. I am expected and I do help get my sisters horses ready wheb thet are dressed and getting themselves ready.

[DreamGirl]

Are we snobs or are we intimidated when someone asks us if it's a saddlebred that we are going to hear all the, "you break their tails right? what is that on their feet? Does that make it hard on them? You don't lunge them? You don't turn them out?" I know when I show up at an open show I'm wary of those questions.

[D_BaldStockings]

The activity level in getting ready for any show is quite equivalent to being backstage putting on a Broadway play, if it were every actor for himself!

If people seem rude or stressed out divas, I can't think it is intentional, merely situational.

I have yet to see the horse who obeys the admonition 'Don't ROLL!!' preferably in the muck spot that wasn't there when you left them braided but untacked -LOL.

And what horse doesn't enjoy sharing hoof polish and horse spit with it's groom? -doesn't improve the looks of your show attire, your coiffure or the show mom's temper.

A focused, winning, competitive attitude could also be mistaken for snobbery, I suppose, but that is the same person who finds the missing whip, polishes off the dusty boot and offers a word of encouragement to the next nervous Nelly in the Academy division.

The horse show is it's own small world complete with tradition and hope fantasy and dreams dashed or fulfilled.

Snobbery? If horses can't teach humility, nothiing can.

Mary

[GottaDrive]

Just because you don't tack your horse at a horse show doesn't make you a snob.

Also, don't mistake focus and concetration for snobbery. Before a class I don't really want anyone to talk to me except for my trainer. Friends, relatives, and strangers stay away. Stop bye after.

[ASB Equestrian]

I concur with all of the above. :)

I don't think we Saddlebred people are snobs so much as that people don't understand the Saddlebred and the "inner workings" of the shows and such. If more people understood the Saddlebred and saddle seat riding in general, mayhap we wouldn't be perceived as "snobs." That being said, writing a whole paper on a relative term like "snobs" wouldn't fly with any of my teachers :) Like someone mentioned before, maybe try writing about the MANY misconceptions people have of Saddlebreds today. Good Luck!

[TakeAchance]

"Snob" is such a nebulous, general and non-specific term I don't think it's a good topic for a school paper.

First you'd have to define "snob", and I don't think horse people define themselves in that way e.g. snob vs non-snob, lol. Snobbery is an attitude that has nothing to do with grooming or not geooming your own horse.

I'd define your subject more closely. Maybe discussing myths and misperceptions about ASBs, or Saddle seat riding.

Im not using the word snob in my paper i just didnt know how to word it at the time. It was a rough draft version of my thesis

[TakeAchance]

You may want to redefine your topic... it's a little broad and stereotypical and narrow all in the same sentence.. And you'll probably NOT want to get opinions from here on the subject. The "snob" title can go with any breed... so I wouldn't limit it to your own.... if it is your own. Attend a Hunter/Jumper show, Quarter Horse show.... the list is endless.... many SHOW horse owners don't tack their own (regardless of the breed). That's why we pay a trainer- whether it's an arabian, quarter horse, warmblood or mule. However there are numerous amounts of us that don't know how to act when someone else tacks our horse up. You're playing into the stereotype by writing this paper.... don't.

Signed,
One who has tacked and has not tacked her own horse.

also to note which i didnt in my first comment. this paper is for a saddleseat issues class, so we are trying to find a controversial topic. I am just looking for some general ideas and am in no way trying to be too specific, so please don't take it personally if i use the word snob etc.

[TakeAchance]

Ok so another thing i want to add is in no way do i think that saddlebred people are snobs, and I am fully aware that even though sometimes at shows people are just handed horses, they do know and want to tack up their horses. That is not the point of my paper.I also know that other breeds are just as guilty as well. It just that their numbers are bigger than ours, but they dont get any problems from it, and we sorta do. The idea came from a question posed in class. So i dont want anyone to focus on the snob part. The point of the paper basically is to look at something that other outsiders who look at our breed see, and ultimately find ways to improve the breed. thanks for the insight already.

[Fanfare]

Don't be offended by anything people say here. We have some real strong characters here and they don't want you to fail. Really they don't. You want a good paper, these folks can help you! :)

Here are a couple topics you can look through. These are really the best and will help you immensely.

http://www.trot.org/forum/showthread.php?t=391

http://www.trot.org/forum/showthread.php?t=571

[SaddlebredMom]

TakeAchance -- Take a look at these two topics in the Marketing & Promotion section:

Marketing question? -How can we change perception of the Saddleseat discipline (http://trot.org/forum/showthread.php?t=391)

Marketing? Debunking the myths circulating about our breed. Input wanted (http://trot.org/forum/showthread.php?t=571)

You'll find insight -- and maybe a tad bit of "controversy" too . . . ;)


(PS -- Fanfare, apparently we are on the same wavelength and timing!)

[TakeAchance]

thanks for the other links. Im just trying not to offend anyone its hard!!

[SaddlebredMom]

"You can please some of the people some of the time . . . ", and you know how the rest of that goes! ;)

[High Stakes]

LOL, well, I'm certainly not offended, and none intended. It's just that the writer and editor in me, as well as the ASB lover, simply thinks "are ASB people snobs" is the wrong question - a NON-question in fact. An irrelevancy.

If you need a controversial subject, there are plenty of those!

Check out the thread on the natural tail 2YO class at KSF if you want to read some controvery ;-).

[minny68]

I have to do a project for school, and our topic is "Do we as saddlebred people come off as "snobs" in the sense that we don't tack up our horses etc, and what can we do to make our image better in the horse world" Any insight would be great
natalie

I can honestly say that having grooms get the horses ready would not make others percieve Saddlebred people as snobs if they come from an Arabian or Morgan background - I have worked as a show groom for all three breeds and the Arabs and Morgans do it the same way - the rider just has to show up dressed and get on (heck, I have even catch rode a time or two when the rider couldn't manage that and gave approval on the phone!).

I think what needs to change is the perception that the Saddlebred is only a rich person's horse. Lets be honest, looking at these guys out there, they look expensive. And when an outsider comes in and sees these expensive looking horses, expensive looking gear and the pomp and such put on at the shows it would be intimidating. The Saddlebred really needs more promotion in areas outside the traditional saddleseat arena - people need to see that those showing are normal, everyday people just like they are and that these horses can be great family horses.

I cannot tell you the number of times I have been asked what breed Perry was when we would show up at the local, one day, $5 a class all breed open show and go into the western pleasure classes and bareback classes. They were stunned that he was a Saddlebred, and a number would comment that "wow, he is beautiful, its too bad Saddlebreds are so expensive or I might consider one". Thats the perception that needs to change. I personally think that more can be done for the breed at the local, open shows and all breed events then at the breed shows. Who watches the Saddlebred shows? Saddlebred people. At open shows you have all walks of horse owners and can really have a great opporunity to dispel the myths about this wonderful breed.